# What is it with women and gay men? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 15, 2010, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-women-and-gay-men/539513 "2010-05-15T04:35:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-women-and-gay-men/539513/21 "2010-05-15T16:52:57Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > Be all of that as it may, some of us _do_ hang out with lesbians when we can. There’s something about lesbians that when you get a few of them together they become the funniest & most irreverent people alive. It’s like they all turn into Molly Ivins and Dorothy Parker when they’re amongst each other or something. I’m a straight woman, and I know a lot of lesbians. Seems like every time I meet someone and think, ‘‘holy crap you are the coolest person ON EARTH’’ she turns out to be a lesbian. I think it’s because a lot of gay people have confronted the issue of gender identity and in some cases made conscious choices to flaut society’s conventions on that matter–which requires a tremendous amount of confidence in who you are or in the very least faith that who you are is worth fighting to be. Therefore, not only do gay women tend to be more socially conscious, they also, being biologically female, understand what it’s like to be a woman. To me that’s the ideal best friend. In fact, it’s the thing that first attracted me to my own best friend – she just does not give a shit what other people think about her, she is utterly comfortable in her own skin, she does not worry about social conventions and she is therefore my polar opposite. And also, I dare say – even though I identify as straight, I have been attracted to women before at least on some level, but those women almost always have ‘‘butch’’ (read: masculine) traits. So it’s kind of neat when you can have masculinity alongside empathy for being female. And by ‘‘neat’’ I mean ‘‘sexy.’’ ---
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-women-and-gay-men/539513/22 "2010-05-15T17:27:15Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Excuse me? > > Yes, because we straight guys are all rapin’ ass holes who are just waiting for that perfect moment to treat women like the bitches that they are. :rolleyes: Of course I didn’t mean that all straight guys are bad guys. I am a straight woman after all (and unlike 95% of women seem to be, not even “bi-curious”). I have a boyfriend who I am rather fond of. However, there are certainly enough cases out there of date rape and acquaintance rape that, yes, it is a valid concern for many women. In fact, I think many men don’t really understand how serious the fear of being raped is for many women because it’s not something that most men have to seriously worry about. ---
**Author:** ![Mississippienne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d2c977/32.png) [@Mississippienne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mississippienne)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-women-and-gay-men/539513/23 "2010-05-15T17:40:06Z")
Straight girl here (more like a 1 on the Kinsey Scale). I’m one of those odd straight girls who never really had any gay male friends, but has lots of straight male and lesbian friends. I’m not sure why; perhaps I subconsciously avoided this cliche, or perhaps it seemed like the gay men I met were either surly, or already surrounded by a posse of women. I’ve been picking up bi/lesbian friends regularly since I was about 16 or 17, however. For whatever reason, I seem to get along better with lesbians and straight men. ---
**Author:** ![Laudenum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7993a0/32.png) [@Laudenum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laudenum)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-women-and-gay-men/539513/24 "2010-05-15T17:55:04Z")
My theory on the subject used to be that fat birds liked hanging around with gay guys to make them feel like they were getting male attention. I have sense abandoned that theory due to observational evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-women-and-gay-men/539513/25 "2010-05-15T17:57:25Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Excuse me? > > Yes, because we straight guys are all rapin’ ass holes who are just waiting for that perfect moment to treat women like the bitches that they are. :rolleyes: Thank you! This annoys the hell out of me. I have some female friends that think their gay friends are simply the best thing ever to have existed on the face of the planet. All of this based solely on the fact that they are gay. What kind of narcissist do you have to be to think that _every_ guy on the planet has some sort of hidden agenda to get down your pants? Sure, I find some of these women attractive. But that doesn’t mean I can’t control myself and stay with in the boundaries that some of these women seem to be so concerned about. Really girls. Get over yourselves. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-women-and-gay-men/539513/26 "2010-05-15T18:02:36Z")
> [@lavenderviolet](#): > > However, there are certainly enough cases out there of date rape and acquaintance rape that, yes, it is a valid concern for many women. In fact, I think many men don’t really understand how serious the fear of being raped is for many women because it’s not something that most men have to seriously worry about. But that’s my point. Rape is a serious problem, but the “1 in 4 women will be raped” statistic has nearly turned the belief that “all men are rapists” into hysteria. And frankly, I’m pretty sick of hearing that. And I imagine a lot of other men are too. ---
**Author:** ![NinetyWt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/cc9497/32.png) [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-women-and-gay-men/539513/27 "2010-05-15T18:13:49Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > And frankly, I’m pretty sick of hearing that. And I imagine a lot of other men are too. And women are sick of living it. I don’t notice any hysteria in lavenderviolet’s posts. She’s stating a simple truth. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-women-and-gay-men/539513/28 "2010-05-15T18:27:46Z")
> [@NinetyWt](#): > > I don’t notice any hysteria in lavenderviolet’s posts. She’s stating a simple truth. That women think all men are rapin’ scumbags? What a horrible way to go through life. ---
**Author:** ![rhubarbarin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb9ed0/32.png) [@rhubarbarin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhubarbarin)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-women-and-gay-men/539513/29 "2010-05-15T18:32:26Z")
I can only speak personally, but I am a (bi, partnered with a man) woman who does not seek or enjoy the friendship of straight men. All my friends are women or gay men, this has been true forever. I have lesbian friends, but have never been friends with a lesbian who is be interested in me at all romantically/sexually. I think this is mostly because I don’t have much in common with most straight guys I know, and I am more likely to find their views on life, and their humor, offensive (I’m an angry, intolerant person and pretty PC in a lot of ways). Also, I don’t like even a hint of sexual tension. I don’t want to be friends with a person (male or female) who wouldn’t turn down sex with me… I’m weird like that. While being sexually assualted by an acquaintance is a constant and reasonable concern for most women (and it has in fact happened to many of my female friends), I’m not a worrier, and don’t assume most straight men I know will be inappropriate, preoposition me, or rape me - most are decent people who have good boundaries. It just bothers me that they might have some sort of physical attraction, even if it’s not explicitly expressed, and whether I am imagining things or not, I get a ‘vibe’ from most men I am exposed to socially that makes me unwilling to have any relationship beyond friendly acquaintance. Obviously the jealousy issue hasn’t been evident for me, because I don’t have non-gay man friends, but it seems that friendships between straight men and women are too often complicated by their romantic partners (or vice versa). Friends of the opposite sex are a source of conflict in the relationships of most couples I know, and I think this might be part of the reason gay men and straight women seem to gravitate towards each other. ---
**Author:** ![rhubarbarin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb9ed0/32.png) [@rhubarbarin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhubarbarin)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-women-and-gay-men/539513/30 "2010-05-15T18:40:06Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > That women think all men are rapin’ scumbags? What a horrible way to go through life. Oh, please. Rape and sexual assault is horrifyingly common even here in America, where women are at less risk than in most of the rest of the world. Until rapists stop raping, perfectly nice men who have never and would never are going to have to deal with women being fearful of the ever-present possibility that someone you trusted enough to put yourself in a semi-vulnerable position is actually a predator. I’m sure you can’t understand carrying around that fear all the time, because you’ve never lived it. I know very well that the vast majority of men aren’t rapists, but tell me how I am supposed to know who is? Rapists do not have a sign on their forehead. ---
**Author:** ![NinetyWt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/cc9497/32.png) [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-women-and-gay-men/539513/31 "2010-05-15T18:43:32Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > That women think all men are rapin’ scumbags? What a horrible way to go through life. Please show me where she says that. Look. This is just a simple thing, like looking both ways before you cross the street, or checking your sky-diving equipment before you jump out of the airplane. It is a fact of life that there are whack-a-loon people out in the world who will hurt you and maybe kill you. Being aware of that isn’t being hysterical. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-women-and-gay-men/539513/32 "2010-05-15T18:47:38Z")
What is it with black women and white gay men? I swear, if there are two people in an office who are destined to become fast friends and co-conspirators, it’s the black chick and the gay white guy. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-women-and-gay-men/539513/33 "2010-05-15T18:58:15Z")
> [@rhubarbarin](#): > > Also, I don’t like even a hint of sexual tension. I don’t want to be friends with a person (male or female) who wouldn’t turn down sex with me… I’m weird like that. . . . It just bothers me that they might have some sort of physical attraction, even if it’s not explicitly expressed, and whether I am imagining things or not, I get a ‘vibe’ from most men I am exposed to socially that makes me unwilling to have any relationship beyond friendly acquaintance. I don’t mean to offend, but that sounds kind of extreme to me. Most women I know are, well, pretty OK with just a smidgen of sexual tension; it makes things interesting, doesn’t it? And as for hating the idea that anyone “wouldn’t turn down” sex with her – frankly, that goes against everything I’ve ever known about any woman, anywhere. [Freud]It zeems you haff izzues . . . [/freud] ---
**Author:** ![Laudenum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7993a0/32.png) [@Laudenum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laudenum)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-women-and-gay-men/539513/34 "2010-05-15T19:04:26Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > What is it with black women and white gay men? I swear, if there are two people in an office who are destined to become fast friends and co-conspirators, it’s the black chick and the gay white guy. I blame Glee. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-women-and-gay-men/539513/35 "2010-05-15T20:28:55Z")
I just wanted to clarify that when I said being around gay men made me feel ‘‘safe,’’ I didn’t mean that I felt afraid of being hit on or sexually assaulted by straight men. As I said in the ‘‘women and sexual assault’’ thread: [QUOTE=olivesmarch4th] I’ve never really had an issue trusting straight men my own age. When I said in that previous thread that being around gay men as a teen felt ‘‘safe,’’ I meant it in the sense that I didn’t have to constantly worry about how my hair looked and whether he found me attractive. If you think of high school as this constant performance in which you feel the need to look and act as attractive as humanly possible, hanging out with gay men was like hanging out backstage, the one time where being attractive wasn’t an issue. [/QUOTE] I had both gay guy friends and straight guy friends in high school, and felt equally trusting of them all. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-women-and-gay-men/539513/36 "2010-05-15T21:25:55Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > All she said was that it was a “danger” (meaning a possibility) that a straight guy would hit on or take advantage of a woman. I think that’s a legitimate reason for women preferring the company of gay men. I agree that the sentiment would have been expressed better had she limited her statement to unwanted sexual advances. > > “Women often prefer the company of gay men to straight men because with straight men there’s always the possibility that they’ll hit on the woman while that’s very unlikely to happen with a gay man.” > > Isn’t that true? Not really. If you know someone well enough to know that they aren’t faking being gay, you know them well enough to know they aren’t faking not wanting to get into your pants. I really think it has more to do with gay men being more likely to embrace femininity, and people like people who are like them. Although, some of the responses in this thread make me think that maybe certain Doper women need to be checked for an anxiety disorder. If you go through life constantly thinking of the worst possible thing that can happen to you, then you are catastrophizing. This means you have a problem. You may tell yourself that the average person constantly worries about being murdered, robbed, etc., but it isn’t true. Normal people don’t constantly fill their heads with thoughts that cause them distress. I have no sympathy for women who constantly fear being raped. In my experience, they are the ones that act like shitty people. They may say they don’t treat every guy as a rapist until proven otherwise, but that must mean they generally treat people rather shittily. ---
**Author:** ![nicole1912](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9de0a6/32.png) [@nicole1912](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nicole1912)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-women-and-gay-men/539513/37 "2010-05-15T21:31:06Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I have no sympathy for women who constantly fear being raped. In my experience, they are the ones that act like shitty people. They may say they don’t treat every guy as a rapist until proven otherwise, but that must mean they generally treat people rather shittily. So, you’ve met some crap women. Because of that you’re willing to generalise your experience to all women who fear being raped. Much like women who have been raped might generalise from their experience, perhaps? And the consequences for them of being wrong isn’t just having to endure some less than entirely pleasant conversation. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-women-and-gay-men/539513/38 "2010-05-15T21:35:51Z")
Yeah, that is quite an extreme reaction. I also dislike the fact that many women in this thread seem to regard male sexuality as a bad thing by default (unless he’s hawt, in which case he’s cowardly if he doesn’t make a move.) Much of the “safety” offered by the gay guys is being explained as being “safe” from the interest of guys who the girl considers undesirable. Yes, evolutionary psychology explains that female reproductive mistakes have had more serious consequence than male, and yes, it’s natural to only want sexual advances that you would be interested in, plus a bit more to raise your social status. But it’s still a pretty selfish thing to think that all the world’s sexuality should be arranged for your maximum convenience and status seeking. ---
**Author:** ![NinetyWt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/cc9497/32.png) [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-women-and-gay-men/539513/39 "2010-05-15T21:41:51Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > If you go through life constantly thinking of the worst possible thing that can happen to you, then you are catastrophizing. This means you have a problem. Who in this thread is saying that they constantly think of the worst possible thing that can happen to them? Here’s an analogy. We keep homeowners’ insurance on our home. Not because we’re paralyzed by the fear of fire or tornadoes, but because we want to protect ourselves from the risk of fire or tornadoes occuring. Are we catastrophizing? Or, consider the motorcycle rider. He has to pay a little more attention to cars than they do him, because car drivers are notorious for not seeing motorcycles. Is he being hysterical to note that car drivers generally don’t give way to motorcycles? ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-women-and-gay-men/539513/40 "2010-05-15T21:54:36Z")
> [@lavenderviolet](#): > > there are certainly enough cases out there of date rape and acquaintance rape that, yes, it is a valid concern for many women. In fact, I think many men don’t really understand how serious the fear of being raped is for many women because it’s not something that most men have to seriously worry about. How do/did you interact differently with men than you would if you didn’t have that fear? I think I’ll go ask that question in the other thread so feel free to answer here or there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-women-and-gay-men/539513.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-women-and-gay-men/539513.md?page=3)