# What is it with women and gay men? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 15, 2010, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-women-and-gay-men/539513 "2010-05-15T04:35:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![raindrop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/74df32/32.png) [@raindrop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindrop)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-women-and-gay-men/539513/81 "2010-06-15T18:38:10Z")
There’s something very wrong with the type of man who would romantically pursue a woman to the point that _ **HE** _ risks splitting up a solid group of good friends, all while letting the woman feel the split would be due to her own bad actions. But I guess it’s just another example of why some women are so eager to be friends with gay men, because it just eliminates a lot of unnecessary tension. As I stated above I haven’t been friends with gay men, but fortunately I’ve always been the type of woman who could be “brutally honest” while not taking responsibility for any unpleasant results of a man’s bad behavior. But I’ve also been able to convince a few men who were romantically interested that a platonic friendship was more worthwhile. Some who were first staunchly opposed to the idea thanked me later. Often they said they had never been able to fathom a friendship with a woman, but afterward felt better for it, and more well-rounded. These were basically decent guys who I thought would make good friends, despite their initial romantic interests. IOW, it’s not always the women who are opposed to platonic friendships with straight men. ---
**Author:** ![raindrop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/74df32/32.png) [@raindrop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindrop)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-women-and-gay-men/539513/82 "2010-06-15T18:57:04Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Gee, from reading all this it seems it’s impossible for a straight guy ever to be friends with a woman (gay or straight). All those times I thought I was getting along with my female “friends,” I was actually intimidating them as they wondered from moment to moment whether I was about to put the moves on them (if not rape them). Gosh, I never realized just what a wild animal I am. Whenever I found those rare exception who could easily be platonic friends with me, I regarded them as a very special treasures, not as intimidating or causing a “moment to moment” fear of rape. It so happens that I’ve always been very glad for the exceptions to the rule, even seeking their companionship frequently. And if your women friends are genuinely happy with you, and seem happy to see you, then you might as well assume that you’re not the type of man we’re describing in any of our complaints here. ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-women-and-gay-men/539513/83 "2010-06-15T19:06:22Z")
I’ve dated two different women who’s circle of friends was mainly gay. That was hard to say - let’s try: I’ve dated two fag hags - that is what they called themselves. I get why women prefer to hang around guys who don’t pressure them but there is a down side, there was for me anyway. Both these women clearly had an attraction to one or more of the guys in their group although they weren’t working on it when they were dating me. That would have put me off. It was also obvious they were not really as “in” the group as much as they thought. Some of their friends didn’t mind hitting on me when the opportunity presented itself either and that was just plan awkward. Guys can be pushy! In the end the drama was just too much with both of them. It wasn’t the gay guys that broke us up, it was the fact that the women really longed for a gay guy who love only her, so much that he converts. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-women-and-gay-men/539513/84 "2010-06-15T19:25:16Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > Question for the gay male respondents to this thread: is it an actual occurrence in your lives to have female aquantances adopt an approach that’s essentially: _"About all I know of you is that you’re gay, so hey, let’s be bestests friends, starting right now!_"? Yes. It’s a good way to make sure you stay acquaintances. I’m a total hag-fag, and I’m surrounded by awesome awesome ladies (interestingly, nearly all of them are queer) with whom there’s a huge fag-hag/fag dynamic that we totally love. But it’s not just gay+lady = hagly goodness! We got that way the same way you get to be dear friends with anyone. I think some women don’t realize that. ---
**Author:** ![Misnomer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misnomer/32/14897_2.png) [@Misnomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Misnomer)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-women-and-gay-men/539513/85 "2010-06-15T20:16:04Z")
I’m not in the same situation as the women **shiftless** dated in terms of secretly wishing that one of my gay friends would fall in love with me, but sometimes I do feel like having mostly gay male friends makes dating a _little_ more challenging (because hey, being overweight and almost 40 just doesn’t make dating challenging enough!). It’s hard to find straight men who are genuinely comfortable with a bunch of gay men, and the four people I like to hang out with the most just happen to be gay men. As for why this straight woman has four close gay male friends, it’s all the SDMB’s fault. 😃 Seriously! It all started a few years ago when I met **Licentious Ectomorph** at a Dopefest: we clicked enough that we later got together on our own, then started following each other’s LiveJournals. A year or so later I met his partner, who I also clicked with, and then last summer (maybe the summer before?) I met two good friends of theirs who I _also_ clicked with. In fact, lately I’ve been hanging out with one of those friends more than with **LE** or his partner. 🙂 ( **LE** wasn’t my first gay man, though: I spent my 20s in gay bars, because my best friend was a lesbian who wasn’t comfortable in straight bars. Hanging out with gay people tends to lead to having gay friends, and there was one point when – except for the lesbian – _all_ of my friends were gay men. I have more warm-and-fuzzy feelings about the gay community than some gay people I know. _grin_) ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-women-and-gay-men/539513/86 "2010-06-15T20:29:20Z")
I also think a straight woman may like gay men over even another straight woman as a friend, is there’s no competition. Even if there is no real competition between the women, there usually something on a sublevel. A gay man isn’t going to remind them they should be prettier or thin, like their straight girlfriend and the gay man is going after gay guys not straight guys, so there’s no competition there either. ---
**Author:** ![lobstermobster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobstermobster/32/10033_2.png) [@lobstermobster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobstermobster)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-women-and-gay-men/539513/87 "2010-06-15T21:08:24Z")
Almost all of these answers make me think y’all need better friends. I’ve heard that “gay men are less threatening than straight men” line for forever. While I take every common sense precaution to keep myself safe in this world, I don’t make a habit of assuming every straight man I encounter is going to “try to get in my pants” or straight up assault me because it’s a little insulting to men, yes? It’s also probably not the right way to go about anything making gay men into such a specific commodity. My best friend is an architect. He brews his own beer. He knows everything there is to know about baseball. He also happens to love dick. We’re friends because we have a lot in common and have fun together. I don’t need a hairdresser or a shopping buddy or someone to tell me I look fabullousssss. I have been grooming myself for years and years just fine on my own. I know terrible things happen. I know there are many many crimes men commit against women. I just refuse to live in fear of this happening. I like and respect men too much. And it’s upsetting that this fear of men by women turns all gay men into sexless saints, straight men into monsters, and women into victims. It strips everyone of their personhood and individuality. I’ve never once had a platonic male friend come on to me. I assume this is because the men I know are fantastic and respect me as an adult with clearly defined boundaries. If a man is assaulting people then obviously the onus is on him to, you know, not assault people. For all the other cases: meet better men. They’re out there. Gay or straight. ---
**Author:** ![Barrett\_Bonden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5e9695/32.png) [@Barrett\_Bonden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barrett_Bonden)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-women-and-gay-men/539513/88 "2010-06-15T21:58:11Z")
> [@lobstermobster](#): > > Almost all of these answers make me think y’all need better friends. **lobstermobster**! You have no idea who I am, but I missed you! Welcome back! ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Rosetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Green\_Rosetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Rosetta)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-women-and-gay-men/539513/89 "2010-06-15T21:59:03Z")
Almost all of my friends are gay men, and it’s been this way since high school. I’m not obese and lonely- I’ve had lots of boyfriends and dated a lot, and still do. I think most of my friends are gay because I work in the theater/music industry, and because I actually prefer to hang out in gay bars. It’s not that I don’t feel safe in straight bars, it’s that I’d like to just sit and drink my drink with my friends without fielding advances. I really hate it when the one straight guy in the bar is milling around, trying to find a straight girl to hook up with. This isn’t the place. If we wanted to hook up, we’d go to a straight bar. Most of my female friends are older than me, and I’ve concluded that I get along better with older straight women/gay men because I find a lot of girls my age (early 20s) aren’t focused on the same things I’m focused on, so we don’t have much in common; I also feel like a lot of young girls have low self esteem and are very self-conscious, and I just don’t get that. ---
**Author:** ![LC\_Strawhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@LC\_Strawhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LC_Strawhouse)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-women-and-gay-men/539513/90 "2010-06-16T02:33:09Z")
There’s a certain kind of female (who may have been treated too harshly by her father) who absolutely despises any sign of strength in men and idealizes the “gay male” archetype for various political-type reasons. It’s like a ritualistic way of neutralizing the hated father figure. If you’re a straight male, this is incredibly annoying to deal with in a partner. It probably comes bundled with a bunch of other issues that will kill a relationship (trust me) ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-women-and-gay-men/539513/91 "2010-06-16T02:49:28Z")
> [@LC\_Strawhouse](#): > > There’s a certain kind of female (who may have been treated too harshly by her father) who absolutely despises any sign of strength in men and idealizes the “gay male” archetype for various political-type reasons. It’s like a ritualistic way of neutralizing the hated father figure. > > If you’re a straight male, this is incredibly annoying to deal with in a partner. It probably comes bundled with a bunch of other issues that will kill a relationship (trust me) That’s how I choose my friends – politics! If only my pappy hadn’t been so generous with the strap, I could have gotten myself a real man instead of some sweet, funny, non-bigoted commie. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-women-and-gay-men/539513/92 "2010-06-16T02:55:59Z")
> [@LC\_Strawhouse](#): > > It’s like a ritualistic way of **neutralizing** the hated father figure. Or **neutering** , perhaps. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-women-and-gay-men/539513/93 "2010-06-16T02:57:24Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Ah hah . . . it occurs to me now that probably the “safety” offered by a gay guy has to do in part with the woman not having to worry about not trusting _herself_. > > Once again y’all are painting it as a matter of all about the big bad male and what are _his_ intentions, but there are two parties involved in those disasterous drunken booty calls, you know. Is it so much the worry over being offered the proposition . . . or more the risk that once it’s offered, you’ll say “yes”? I’m still interested to see if anyone has a view on this, pro or con. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-women-and-gay-men/539513/94 "2010-06-16T03:05:05Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > Yes. It’s a good way to make sure you stay acquaintances. I’m a total hag-fag, and I’m surrounded by awesome awesome ladies (interestingly, nearly all of them are queer) with whom there’s a huge fag-hag/fag dynamic that we totally love. But it’s not just gay+lady = hagly goodness! We got that way the same way you get to be dear friends with anyone. I think some women don’t realize that. I think I posed the question because, in the W4M Strictly Platonic section of Craigslist, I often see women advertising for gay male friends. Granted, every sort of combination for every conceivable purpose is advertised on Craigslist, but this one seems odd: “I want a non-sexual relationship with someone, but that relationship must be based on that person having a specific sexuality.” ---
**Author:** ![gang\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f07891/32.png) [@gang\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gang_green)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-women-and-gay-men/539513/95 "2010-06-16T03:22:44Z")
Boy, what a can of worms this has turned out to be! I’m not saying that I like gay men because they’re less threatening, or anything like that. It has more to do with the fact that he’s a friend that will remain that way, and you won’t have that sinking feeling one day if your straight male friend suddenly starts expressing more carnal or romantic interest. Turning him down usually ends up destroying the friendship, and then you wonder if maybe you led him on or something. Did he really like me as a person, or did he just want to get into my pants all along? I don’t spend time during the friendship wondering these things, but they certainly come up when things blow up that way. It’s a cliche, but the “let’s just be friends” thing didn’t become cliche because it never happens. You see guys complaining about that all the time - “she said she just wants to be friends!” - as if it’s a fate worse than death. Girl who doesn’t put out = not worth knowing, or something. Very annoying. As for the escort thing, in an unfamiliar environment or in a place surrounded by unfamiliar people, most women simply must maintain a certain level of wariness or they are likely to be preyed upon. Not fair, not cool, but ignoring it doesn’t make it go away. So having a good male buddy you can count on when you just want to go out dancing or to a concert is a really nice thing. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-women-and-gay-men/539513/96 "2010-06-16T03:29:47Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > I’m still interested to see if anyone has a view on this, pro or con. Hey, just be glad we’re not back in the bad old days. Straight women may have buddied up to gay guys sooner than straight guys did, but back then they were pulling their fair share of the hate load. Dear Diane Keaton who makes these charming “love is still there for aging, affluent baby-boomer” movies was in a thing called _Looking for Mr Goodbar_. The message in its last five minutes was an affirmation of the cherished conviction that homosexuals were simply failed heterosexuals, and, if confronted with this reality, would lash out murderously. And whenever a straight woman was dissatified with a man, either in bed or in his professional life or couldn’t get the car started or what-the-fuck-ever, she’d call him a “queer” faster than a duck on a junebug. Rich women would keep “house pansies” like Truman Capote, but the average woman was as consumed with hidden fear that her husband was a “latent homosexual” as he himself was consumed by that fear, and she saw out-of-the-closet gays as a threat to her marriage (a big threat in the days when her marriage was her sole means of livelihood: the fact that women now earn their own money may be why they also now accept gay men as friends) ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-women-and-gay-men/539513/97 "2010-06-16T03:47:54Z")
Huh? did you read my question? ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-women-and-gay-men/539513/98 "2010-06-16T04:32:31Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Huh? did you read my question? yes, you wrote “Ah hah . . . it occurs to me now that probably the “safety” offered by a gay guy has to do in part with the woman not having to worry about not trusting herself.” I could have replied “no, you’re full of shit,” but I don’t think you’re full of shit. I think you’ve listed one valid possibility for some but not all women, so I wrote about how the gay male/straight female friendship dynamic in general is a relatively recent phenomenon. Its a discussion, where the teeming millions may submit their own perspectives to the tapestry, not any one poster’s cachetism class. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-women-and-gay-men/539513/99 "2010-06-16T16:25:04Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > I think I posed the question because, in the W4M Strictly Platonic section of Craigslist, I often see women advertising for gay male friends. > > Granted, every sort of combination for every conceivable purpose is advertised on Craigslist, but this one seems odd: “I want a non-sexual relationship with someone, but that relationship must be based on that person having a specific sexuality.” Uh. Oh dear. Often? Craigslist is a good place to get tea sets and apartments, very worrisome place to get friends. For both parties. IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![starryspice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9e8a1a/32.png) [@starryspice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/starryspice)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-women-and-gay-men/539513/100 "2010-06-16T17:43:19Z")
> [@Mississippienne](#): > > Straight girl here (more like a 1 on the Kinsey Scale). I’m one of those odd straight girls who never really had any gay male friends, but has lots of straight male and lesbian friends. I’m not sure why; perhaps I subconsciously avoided this cliche, or perhaps it seemed like the gay men I met were either surly, or already surrounded by a posse of women. I’ve been picking up bi/lesbian friends regularly since I was about 16 or 17, however. For whatever reason, I seem to get along better with lesbians and straight men. I’m another odd straight girl, but that’s because I actually like hanging out with other straight girls. Cuz girls are cool, despite what pop culture and media would have one think with the whole “mean girls” hype. While I’ve met a few gay men in my life, I’ve never become friends with them. I think the reason is that (and I’m generalizing here based on my own experience) gay men tend to prefer extroverted, fun women. Not that I’m not fun, but I don’t think I’m their kind of fun. I’m quiet and a little introverted. Also, I’ve had all of one boyfriend, who I married, so I have no crazy sexual exploits or dating nightmares to laugh about. I feel like most gay men, at least the obvious ones, prefer not to hang out with quiet types like me. I’m also not terribly pretty, at least not in the commonly accepted sense of pretty, so I haven’t been hit on a whole lot in my life, which takes away some of the appeal of having a gay friend. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-women-and-gay-men/539513.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-women-and-gay-men/539513.md?page=6)