# What is it with you Dopers? NOW it's a LIFE? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 17, 2004, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-you-dopers-now-its-a-life/280358 "2004-12-17T16:22:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ghanima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Ghanima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ghanima)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-you-dopers-now-its-a-life/280358/21 "2004-12-17T18:51:42Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > Yes. That’s what all pro-choice people think. You can have an abortion while you’re 8cm dilated and it’s just fine. I really, really hope that you are being sarcastic. If not, you have swallowed the anti-choice hype hook, line and sinker. Just in case you are serious, I am pro-choice, but I am personally of the opinion that if the baby can survive outside the womb then it should be delivered. Of course this would mean that a woman who is six months pregnant has to decide between carrying to term or induced labor. Then someone has to pay for the care of the child, but I’m guessing that someone would. I would never support aborting an eight or nine month old fetus. I know it’s a fine line, but that’s what I believe. In other words, you are wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-you-dopers-now-its-a-life/280358/22 "2004-12-17T18:59:28Z")
> [@Ghanima](#): > > I really, really hope that you are being sarcastic. If not, you have swallowed the anti-choice hype hook, line and sinker. He’s being sarcastic. You can trust the **Giraffe**. He’s good people. He’s also got a prehensile tongue. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-you-dopers-now-its-a-life/280358/23 "2004-12-17T19:13:48Z")
> [@Ghanima](#): > > I really, really hope that you are being sarcastic. If not, you have swallowed the anti-choice hype hook, line and sinker. No, I was being sarcastic. I think anything after 6cm is wrong and should be illegal. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-you-dopers-now-its-a-life/280358/24 "2004-12-17T19:20:50Z")
> [@Jenaroph](#): > > Note that the name for the movement is “pro-choice”, not “pro-abortion”, despite what the other side would like to have people believe. > > If you didn’t realize it before, it must be odd to suddenly be confronted with evidence that pro-choice people are also as a general rule pro-responsibility. The choice to abort or not abort is not considered a frivolous one, despite what the other side would like to have people believe. > > Pro-choice means respecting a woman’s right to keep _as well as_ to abort a pregnancy; not pushing people into having abortions, despite what the other side would like to have people believe. [sup]TM[/sup] > > The key is that the choice to keep or end a pregnancy should be the prerogative of the woman and her doctor and perhaps whatever God she believes in; not the government, not somebody else’s church, and not a handful of busybodies on a message board. > > The woman in question has made her choice. The bulk of advice to the young man is to deal with his responsibility, not to try to convince her to have an abortion she doesn’t want. There is no contradiction here. Exceptionally well stated!!! ---
**Author:** ![Abbie\_Carmichael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@Abbie\_Carmichael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abbie_Carmichael)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-you-dopers-now-its-a-life/280358/25 "2004-12-17T19:25:33Z")
You’re in the right, OP, but the people you’re referring to are too far gone to be convinced otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-you-dopers-now-its-a-life/280358/26 "2004-12-17T19:29:54Z")
> [@Abbie Carmichael](#): > > You’re in the right, OP, but the people you’re referring to are too far gone to be convinced otherwise. What is the OP right about? Don’t be coy. Enlighten us. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-you-dopers-now-its-a-life/280358/27 "2004-12-17T19:32:51Z")
> [@Abbie Carmichael](#): > > You’re in the right, OP, but the people you’re referring to are too far gone to be convinced otherwise. **Abbie** , I’ve told you before. Nobody likes abortion. It’s not what pro choice is about. The pregnant girl in question _made her choice_. She’s keeping her child. Get off the sanctimonious judgemental kick, already. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-you-dopers-now-its-a-life/280358/28 "2004-12-17T19:33:32Z")
> [@prisoner6655321](#): > > No pro-choice argument here? I wonder why. hmmm… Because the choice has already been made. Pro-Choice does not mean “Pro-Abortion” where they would continue to argue the pregnancy should be terminated even if the woman wants to have the baby. They are taking her decision to keep the baby as a final decision and moving forward from there. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-you-dopers-now-its-a-life/280358/29 "2004-12-17T19:35:10Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > What is the OP right about? Don’t be coy. Enlighten us. No, they’ve got us, **Diogenes**. It’s time to finally admit it: we all know abortion is murder, but we don’t care because we like murdering children. We pretend that a two-week old fetus is just a clump of cells, but that’s just something we say to give our child-murdering fetish a veneer of respectability. Our ultimate goal is to make it legal to kill anyone under 18, but we’re not quite there yet. First we have to enact mandatory homosexuality in our public schools. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-you-dopers-now-its-a-life/280358/30 "2004-12-17T19:35:51Z")
> [@Abbie Carmichael](#): > > You’re in the right, OP, but the people you’re referring to are too far gone to be convinced otherwise. Pro-life liberal here (one of 3). I have absolutely no idea where the OP possibly has a leg to stand on. Maybe you could be a tad more specific than your patheticly vague drive-by. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-you-dopers-now-its-a-life/280358/31 "2004-12-17T19:37:35Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Rick, follow this logic: if it’s a life, and produced by human reproduction, it’s a human being, which means that it’s entitled to the full spectrum of rights we grant human beings in this country – which means you should be out there getting voting rights for fetuses, following the logic. No, because I also don’t support voting rights for three year olds; I don’t consider voting amongst the “full spectrum of right we grant human beings in this country.” > [@](#): > > Here’s my take on it: it’s two gametes fusing, producing an embryo, which becomes a fetus, which becomes a baby, a toddler, a child, an adolescent, and an adult, in order, if nothing should stop it first. Just as the range of rights and responsibilities grows from birth to majority, and ought to, there’s a period prior to birth in which it is a potential separate person but not yet actually one – it cannot live without the support of the womb in which it’s carried. That means the person to whom the womb is attached has rights and responsibilities as well. I don’t agree that there is a period after conception but prior to birth at which the embryo/fetus is not a person. > [@](#): > > I am personally, in general, opposed to the termination of a pregnancy that will lead to a viable human being. But I am not prepared to regard that personal view as justification to mandate that someone else – the pregnant girl or woman – must therefore carry the child to term. There’s a balancing-of-rights routine that must be carried out there – and the fertilization of an unlodged gamete is not the point at which that person-in-potentia has an absolute right to life, IMO. > > I respect your right to view it differently – but I’m stating my own view. One evolves toward being an adult human being in stages – I merely extend that series back before birth, and regard the assumption of rights and responsibilities as also extending backwards through pregnancy. And I respect your view as well, even though - obviously - I see things differently. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-you-dopers-now-its-a-life/280358/32 "2004-12-17T19:40:52Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > No, they’ve got us, **Diogenes**. It’s time to finally admit it: we all know abortion is murder, but we don’t care because we like murdering children. We pretend that a two-week old fetus is just a clump of cells, but that’s just something we say to give our child-murdering fetish a veneer of respectability. > > Our ultimate goal is to make it legal to kill anyone under 18, but we’re not quite there yet. First we have to enact mandatory homosexuality in our public schools. Great! I know plenty of 15-year abortions I’d like to see done. Teenagers are really really difficult to deal with at times! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-you-dopers-now-its-a-life/280358/33 "2004-12-17T19:42:22Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Pro-life liberal here (one of 3). I have absolutely no idea where the OP possibly has a leg to stand on. He doesn’t. In addition, he’s a [one trick pony](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=288513). **prisoner6655321** , I admit to being a little single minded, but do you EVER start threads about anything else? ---
**Author:** ![Ghanima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Ghanima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ghanima)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-you-dopers-now-its-a-life/280358/34 "2004-12-17T20:07:11Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > He’s being sarcastic. You can trust the **Giraffe**. He’s good people. > > He’s also got a prehensile tongue. Oh, my bad, sorry. My sarcasmo-meter must be out of whack today. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-you-dopers-now-its-a-life/280358/35 "2004-12-17T21:04:55Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > It legal to kill anyone under 18, but we’re not quite there yet. First we have to enact mandatory homosexuality in our public schools. We have no legal excuse to kill children. We’re going to have to succeed in getting private school prayer considered a death-penalty offense. That’ll be a start. Get that yucky God out of our institutions of evolutionary brainwashing. Now if you’ll excuse me, I have to go drink the blood of a goat. ---
**Author:** ![prisoner6655321](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f8ce5/32.png) [@prisoner6655321](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/prisoner6655321)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-you-dopers-now-its-a-life/280358/36 "2004-12-17T21:46:02Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > He doesn’t. In addition, he’s a [one trick pony](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=288513). > **prisoner6655321** , I admit to being a little single minded, but do you EVER start threads about anything else? Bit ignorant on how to search for threads by a poster, or are you purposely manipulating people just to disregard what I say? > **[What came first, the tool or the brain?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=290406)** > > Sorry if this is in the wrong forum. It might get opinionated. And it’s pretty tame to be a great debate. Moderator, place it wherever you think it belongs. And I tried searching. If anyone can point me to some discussions along similar lines... > **[Thin people aren't famous because the media made them famous.](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=290368)** > > I think the discussions we have on this board related to thin-ness, attractiveness, obesity, the media’s responsibility in perpetrating the “myth” that thin is normal, etc. are misguided. Just look at the people we are “taught” to emulate. Or... > **[So you want a man who knows how to treat a lady. Well, how do you treat your...](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=289456)** > > I see this all the time when looking through the personals: “Looking for a gentleman who knows how to treat a lady.” Sure, all well and good for the ladies. But what about the guys? Don’t they deserve to be treated right too? Or is it just... > **[Blockbuster takes on Netflix.](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=289497)** > > I got a piece of spam today announcing blockbuster.com’s new service. Suspiciously excactly precisely like netflix. I guess Blockbuster finally noticed it’s customers were disappearing. It’s $17.49. 50cents cheaper than netflix. They rent games... Hardly a one trick pony. I discuss all kinds of things. And I’ve noticed that all anyone is discussing is the OP and not the later more thorough explanation 3 posts later. Hey! How about this for an idea and oh say a **RULE**? Read the whole thread (and the links posted in it) before you post about something that could have already been answered! Anyone care to explain why in one case [sex=responsibility and in another case sex=/=responsibility?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=5621291#post5621291) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-you-dopers-now-its-a-life/280358/37 "2004-12-17T22:05:57Z")
> [@prisoner6655321](#): > > Bit ignorant on how to search for threads by a poster, or are you purposely manipulating people just to disregard what I say? We don’t need any help to do that. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-you-dopers-now-its-a-life/280358/38 "2004-12-17T22:09:41Z")
> [@prisoner6655321](#): > > Bit ignorant on how to search for threads by a poster, or are you purposely manipulating people just to disregard what I say? > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=290406](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=290406) > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=290368](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=290368) > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=289456](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=289456) > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=289497](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=289497) I have enough respect for most people here to know damn well I’m not able to manipulate any of them. But the fact is, you keep coming back to this subject, over and over. Make your point, already. Quit tap dancing around the subject and just come out and say what you fucking mean. > [@](#): > > And I’ve noticed that all anyone is discussing is the OP and not the later more thorough explanation 3 posts later. Hey! How about this for an idea and oh say a **RULE**? Read the whole thread (and the links posted in it) before you post about something that could have already been answered! **kaylas dad** responded succinctly and pretty much on the money. Your pitting is being ripped to shreds because it’s a stupid, baseless rant. Welcome to the Pit. Enjoy your stay. > [@](#): > > Anyone care to explain why in one case [sex=responsibility and in another case sex=/=responsibility?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=5621291#post5621291) This has been explained also. Try reading the entire thread. Pro choice does not equal irresponsible. Please see **Jenaroph’s** post. Trying to duck one’s responsibility (and yes, deciding to have sex infers a certain responsibility on the person having it) by “signing away my rights” is reprehensible to say the least. Sorry to burst your narrow minded, misogynistic, god fearing little bubble. Pro choice is ALL about repsonsibility. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-you-dopers-now-its-a-life/280358/39 "2004-12-17T22:18:12Z")
> [@prisoner6655321](#): > > I don’t think that I have to give the innumberable examples in which a pro-life doper has told you pro-choice dopers that sex comes with responsibility. And my Uncle Ben told me that with _great_ sex comes _great_ responsibility. Some pro-choicers see it as a potential life, and are against abortion morally, but believe it needs to be protected legally. So there’s another reason you can’t assume that pro-choice people think - whatever you think they think about responsibility. Man, I could never look at Aunt May the same way after that… ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-you-dopers-now-its-a-life/280358/40 "2004-12-17T22:35:33Z")
Gee, the sex I had with your Aunt May was lousy. I thought I was responsible for its low quality but I’m glad to see Ben doesn’t think so. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-you-dopers-now-its-a-life/280358.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-you-dopers-now-its-a-life/280358.md?page=3)