# What is it with you Yanks?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-you-yanks/54870
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [February 17, 2001, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-you-yanks/54870 "2001-02-17T11:19:31Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@Protesilaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Protesilaus)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2001, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-you-yanks/54870/61 "2001-02-19T04:12:32Z")
Well, **Coldfire** , this is taking much longer than I thought it would, so I’m just gonna post what I’ve got so far and save the rest for later.
As promised, it’s:
Some Valuable Contributions of the Netherlands and its People, Part 1
[Antonie van Leeuwenhoek](http://www.omni-optical.com/micro/sm101.htm): Improved the microscope, Discovered bacteria
[Christaan Huygens](http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/cassini/MoreInfo/casshuyg.html#huygens): Improved the telescope, Discovered Saturn’s rings and its moon Titan, Invented the pendulum clock and the first accurate time-keeping device, Helped to found the Academie Royale des Sciences in Paris and was its first director, Formulated [Huygens’ Principle](http://www.britannica.com/bcom/eb/article/9/0,5716,42599+1+41660,00.html), and more
[Gerardus 't Hooft and Martinus J.G. Veltman](http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/science/DailyNews/nobelphysics991012.html): Won 1999 Nobel Prize for Physics for “devising theories explaining the quantum structure of electroweak interactions among subatomic particles”
From [this list](http://cnr2.kent.edu/~manley/physicists.html) of famous physicists:
> [@](#):
>
> Willebrod Snell: discovered law of refraction (Snell’s law)
> Christiaan Huygens: proposed a simple geometrical wave theory of light, now known as ``Huygen’s principle’’; pioneered use of the pendulum in clocks
> Johannes van der Waals: worked on equations of state for gases and liquids (Nobel Laureate)
> Hendrik Antoon Lorentz: introduced Lorentz transformation equations of special relativity; advanced ideas of relativistic length contraction and relativistic mass increase; contributed to theory of electromagnetism (N.L.)
> Heike Kamerlingh-Onnes: liquified helium; discovered superconductivity (N.L.)
> Pieter Zeeman: discovered splitting of spectral lines in a strong magnetic field (N.L.)
> Frits Zernike: invented the phase-contrast microscope, a type of microscope widely used for examining specimens such as biological cells and tissues (N.L.)
> Simon van der Meer: contributed to experiments that led to the discovery of the carriers (W± and Z°) of the weak interaction (N.L.)
> Gerard t’ Hooft: contributed to theoretical understanding of gauge theories in elementary particle physics, quantum gravity and black holes, and fundamental aspects of quantum physics (N.L.)
> George E. Uhlenbeck and Samuel Abraham Goudsmit: co-discovered that the electron has an intrinsic spin
NASA provides a list of [Famous Dutch Astronomers](http://huey.jpl.nasa.gov/~gerard/old_web_page/dutchastro.html).
The Dutch scholar [Desiderius Erasmus](http://www.ciger.be/erasmus/) is sometimes called the father of the Reformation and was one of the greatest medieval scholars. (More on Erasmus: [The History Guide](http://www.pagesz.net/~stevek/intellect/erasmus.html), [Encarta](http://encarta.msn.com/find/Concise.asp?z=1&pg=2&ti=761574599))
To Be Continued…
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### Author:  [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2001, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-you-yanks/54870/62 "2001-02-19T11:49:21Z")
Curse you, Protesilaus! I spend a day away from the net in the real world, gathering a head of steam, and you have to go and… and… and… apologise! It’s wrong… it’s unfair… it’s UNAMERICAN! 😃 You’ve done gone shattered my romantic image of a good ol’ boy, rounding up a few pals and some shotguns, jumping into a pickup truck (an Aussie invention), and all going a-flamin’!
So now I’ve got to be halfway POLITE as I pull your post to bits. Dang! Dontcha just hate that?
Orrite, here goes:
Firstly, I must congatulate you for being so perceptive. I did indeed use mostly “actual English words” in my opening sentences. As Australia is an English-speaking country, I found it a little hard to avoid using them. If you look closely at the rest of my post, you might even be able to spot a few more of them (a fun game for all the family); really obscure ones like “the”, “is”, and “thing”.
Thank you for your URL on Indian languages, by the way. It has always been my understanding that as the second most populous nation in the world, and with English as an offical language, it was the largest English speaking country. Granted, your URL puts the number of English speakers at around ten million, but it doesn’t give a source for this figure (like it does for the other languages). I’m not yet convinced. I suspect the number is much more than that, but I’m open to persuasion.
Umm… the poster who was joking? D’uh. Must’ve missed that particular post. Mea culpa! Mea culpa!
Hmm… what’s next… oh yes, inventions. Well, with our 19 million souls having to keep up with your 270 million or whatever it is these days, we may have to concede defeat. But we will go out with all Australian-designed Owen machine guns blazing. Have a look at this:
[http://www.maths.uwa.edu.au/~adrian/ozinvent.html](http://www.maths.uwa.edu.au/~adrian/ozinvent.html)
* * *
Hang on… going down to my stereotypical refrigerator for a stereotypical beer. Fosters? WHAAAAT? HEINEKEN? Naughty Australian (please don’t tell anybody)!
* * *
AAh, that’s better. Where did we get to? Ah yes indeedy - language. Protty maaaaaate, ol’ son, we have these wonderful words in the English language called homonyms (or homophones, or even heterophones - the distinction is debatable). This is a pretty ad-bloody-vanced concept, but I’ll have a go at explaining it. Some words sound the same…am I going too fast here? No? Ok. Some words sound the same, may even be spelled the same way, but mean different things. Pretty amazing, I know, but there it is.
“So”, you ask the wise and sage Loaded, “How can you tell the difference between a boot and a boot?” I’m not sure that I can explain this in simple enough terms for my esteemed trans-Pacific cousin, but it does bring to mind a very old schoolyard joke:
“What’s the difference between a mail box and an elephant’s arse?”
“I don’t know.”
“Well, remind me never to ask you to post anything for me.”
😃
Colour? Humour? Well, I might be able to explain the first one. Tee hee…
## Anyways Protesilaus, thanks for a good bite. You’re welcome at my place for a jingoistic barbeque next time you’re in the Great Southern Land.
And don’t let me get started on those Brits!
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### Author:  [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2001, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-you-yanks/54870/63 "2001-02-19T11:53:10Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Defender \*
> \*\*Why claim to speak English and then change the bloody language?. \*\*
Actually, IIRC, it was the British who have changed the language. Much of American English derives from the way in which the language was spoken when the Colonies were settled. Bill Bryson has a few books out on this very subject.
BTW: Norfolk, Nebraska → “Norfork”. Go figure. 😃
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### Author:  [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2001, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-you-yanks/54870/64 "2001-02-19T12:04:13Z")
Taking note of Coldy’s veiled clues.
so, Defender, In 5 sentences, what do you have against the Yanks?
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### Author:  [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2001, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-you-yanks/54870/65 "2001-02-19T12:06:51Z")
The use of the phrase **cop on** in the OP and Coldies reply about IP’s leads me to think that this fool is Irish :o
So me first.
-Did you hear about the Irishman who won the Nobel Prize?
-He was outstanding in his field.
Old I know but it’s early and I need a coffee.
Defender the Bill Bryson refered to is “Made in America” and I’m reading it at the momment. You should read it, it might clear up some of your issues with Yanks.
Now lay off the shite.
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### Author:  [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2001, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-you-yanks/54870/66 "2001-02-19T17:00:55Z")
**Protesilaus** , I stand in awe at your research. Well done! My country isn’t so bad after all, I suppose. 😉
Of course, your list could have included (and I know you said you were going to continue later, just trying to help here):[ul][li] **Jan Tinbergen** , winner of the 1969 Nobel Prize for Economics;[/li][li] **Rembrandt van Rijn** , famous painter (of _Night Watch_ fame);[/li][li] **Johannes Vermeer** , famous painter (_Milk Maid_ and others);[/li][li] **Alex and Eddy van Halen** , Rock Gods :D[/ul][/li]But fair is fair: you’ve been a great sport by even picking up the gauntlet in the first place. Thanks!
**yojimbo** : _bollocks_, how’d you guess that? 😉
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### Author:  [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2001, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-you-yanks/54870/67 "2001-02-19T17:15:22Z")
What About M.C. Escher? the best Dutch artist of all!!
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### Author:  [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2001, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-you-yanks/54870/68 "2001-02-19T21:01:33Z")
And you just **can’t** leave out Ricksen and Konterman 😃 😃 😃
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### Author:  [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2001, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-you-yanks/54870/69 "2001-02-19T21:17:28Z")
Or Marco Boogers.
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### Author:  [@Lux\_Fiat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lux_Fiat)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2001, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-you-yanks/54870/70 "2001-02-19T22:02:53Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by ruadh \*
> All right, I’m stumped. Canada? I mean, it’s a nice enough place and all, but would anyone even _notice_ if it fell off the face of the earth?
EXTERIOR- Gladys and Bill sit on the back porch of their quaint beachfront North Dakota farmhouse.
GLADYS: Something’s different this morning.
BILL: I shaved my moustache a week ago, Gladys.
GLADYS: No, no. It’s…
_Gladys makes sweeping gesture with her hand, encompassing the vast, gray ocean at the foot of their property._
BILL: Can’t say I catch your meaning, Gladys.
GLADYS: Now- I don’t- Was that water _there_ yesterday?
_Bill’s brows jostle for position at the center of his forehead._
BILL: Well. You know, that is a good question, Gladys. I mean, it _must_ have been, mustn’t it? What else would have been there?
_Gladys sighs._
GLADYS: We’re gettin’ old, Bill. Oh, Jim Anderson down at the Century 21 called this morning. Says our house is worth $300,000. Says lots of folk from California are looking for beachfront property up here nowadays.
_Bill whistles_
BILL: All of a sudden?
GLADYS: Jim couldn’t explain it. Says the real estate market’s funny that way. And, well, you know Califoria folk.
BILL: Mm-hm.
GLADYS: Strange world.
BILL: Hm.
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### Author:  [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2001, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-you-yanks/54870/71 "2001-02-19T22:22:53Z")
I’d miss Canada. But only because I’d then have to claim the Bills as a New York team. As it stands now I can palm them off to our friendly neighbor to the north.
I also like going into McDonald’s, handing them a five and getting back $6.10. Canada’s cool (and cold).
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### Author:  [@Nimue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nimue)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2001, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-you-yanks/54870/72 "2001-02-19T22:30:02Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose \*
> \*\*
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > _originally posted by Nimue:_
> > **Ahh, the Scottish “burgh” is pronounced “borough”, except that the Scots use an alveolar flap (like the “t” in Americans’ pronuciation of “city”) instead of an /r/. This makes it sound like more like “burra” (except that it’s really more like a cross between “buh-tuh” and “buh-duh” with a flap for the “t” or “d”).**
>
> Eh, my point was not the difference between “burra” and “borough”. My point was that in the U.S., it would be pronounced “burg”, with a hard terminal “g”. As in PittsBURGH. 🙂 \*\*
Like I said, it’s because the Scottish word “burgh” is pronounced “borough.” All Scottish cities and towns which end in “burgh” are pronounced “(whatever)borough”. Edinburgh, Jedburgh, Fraserburgh – when spoken all end in “borough.” This is particular to Scottish English, which has influences on it other than English (namely, Gaelic). There are many pronunciation differences between Scottish English and the Standard British and American dialects. This is one of them. (In England the name is written out “(whatever)borough”. E.g. Peterborough).
In fact, technically speaking it is the American pronunciation which is incorrect. If you look up “burgh” in the Merriam Webster Dictionary, it says:
**burgh: a Scottish town**
The _only_ pronunciation (and hence, the _correct_ pronunciation) given is that of “borough” (which I can’t reproduce here because I don’t have the symbols).
You could therefore argue that Pittsburgh really should have been pronounced “Pittsborough”. My WAG is that with Americans’ affinity for vocal simplification, the Scottish pronunciation of the word couldn’t hold up against the way it was spelled. (However, since Pittsburgh is as it is in the language, no one in their right mind would try to convince people it was wrong now.)
The latter part of my original answer, which was not the key part, was to explain why in Scottish accents, “borough” comes out sounding like “burra”, or more aptly, a cross between “buh-tuh” and “buh-duh”.
Hope I’ve made that more clear this time. 🙂
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose \*
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > _originally posted by Nimue:_
> > **As for the “folks” (Norfolk, Suffolk) – I don’t know of any English dialect where the “l” in folk is clearly pronounced as an “l”. That just leaves the vowel sound which is different, which isn’t really all that unusual. I don’t have a better explanation than that, I’m afraid.**
>
> I’m not talking about the “l” sound, I’m talking about the way an American would pronounce it “Norfoke” and “Suffoke”, with a long “o”. \*\*
Yeah, I understood that the first time around, too. To my ears, I agree that it does sound like in British English “folk” comes out like, er, “fuck” when placed in the second syllable of place names like “Norfolk” and “Suffolk”. What I was trying to say is that my guess was that it’s caused by a mere difference in vowel vocalisations. The nuances of how vowels are vocalised necessarily make up the bulk of differences between accents, and I attribute it to that. I don’t think it’s anything conscious. It would be like asking people from Boston why they pronounce their “aw”'s more like “ah”'s. (Incidentally, the answer is because that part of their accent remains truer to British English, due to Boston’s continued connection as a port town with Britain.) In other words, it’s probably just an irrelevant detail which makes up part of the accent. Why do you suppose we Americans pronounce “Plymouth” as “plih-mith” when in England, “Portsmouth” is pronounced as it looks like it should be (i.e. with “mouth” intact)? I imagine the answer is the same. Vowel sounds have a habit of morphing into vowel sounds which are easier to pronounce, regardless of the spelling of the word. It’s a fact of spoken language, and different accents seem to alter these sounds differently to make them more convenient to say.
As for names like “Gloucester” and “Leicester”, which I didn’t get to the first time around – I’ve wondered about this too. My best guess is that when we read these words, we visually break them apart into syllables differently than they were intended.
What I mean is that when we look at:
Gloucester and Leicester
we see “Glou-ce-ster” and “Lei-ce-ster”
when it’s actually “Glouce-ster” and “Leice-ster”
and hence pronounced “glouster” and “lester”.
Incidentally this knowledge makes it much easier to pronounce “Worcestershire Sauce.” 🙂 (i.e. “wooster-sher”)
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### Author:  [@Nimue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nimue)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2001, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-you-yanks/54870/73 "2001-02-19T22:55:21Z")
P.S. If you compare the pronunciation of “nor-foke” with “nor-fuck” I think you’ll find that it’s easier and faster to produce the latter. Try it a few times.
Now imagine having to say “nor-foke” in casual conversation. Saying it with the long “o” requires more effort and conscious, careful, and deliberate pronunciation – things which are contrary to casual speech. The natural inclination is to bring the vowel forward or up in the mouth, resulting in a sound more like “uh” or “ih”. It’s also natural to accent the first syllable, so that saying the “folk” half of the word is even faster.
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### Author:  [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2001, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-you-yanks/54870/74 "2001-02-19T23:03:28Z")
If I may add a bit to Nimue’s very commendable post, the original Old English word was “burh” meaning town or fortress. The suffix “-bury” (as in Glastonbury or many other British towns) also derives from this word, as, of course, does “-borough”. So, as Nimue said, the pronunciation of “burgh” as “burra” may look strange from an American point of view, but it is indeed the more accurate pronunciation from a historic/linguistic point of view.
And in the Brits’ defence at least they pronounce “Maryland” more or less the way it’s spelled.
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### Author:  [@Nimue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nimue)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2001, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-you-yanks/54870/75 "2001-02-19T23:12:11Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by ruadh \*
> \*\*And in the Brits’ defence at least they pronounce “Maryland” more or less the way it’s spelled. \*\*
Yeah, I guess. But being from Balmer, Mare-ih-lin myself, I find that “Mary-land” really grates on my damned nerves.
_…grumble grumble…_
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### Author:  [@Great\_Dave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Dave)
#### Post date: [February 19, 2001, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-you-yanks/54870/76 "2001-02-19T23:48:20Z")
and what about all that wonderful Dutch chocolate? That certainly has improved this world.
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### Author:  [@bwanasimba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bwanasimba)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2001, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-you-yanks/54870/77 "2001-02-20T13:31:42Z")
…but with regard to “What the Netherlands has given us” - I feel obliged to mention that this country has produced some of the best footballers the world has seen over the last 30 years - _Marco Van Basten_ and _Johann Cruyff_ to name my top 2.
I ran a quick search and couldn’t find a thread that discussed “Who is the best football (soccer) player of all time?” and couldn’t find it. My gast has been flabbered.
Lion Killer
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### Author:  [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2001, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-you-yanks/54870/78 "2001-02-20T13:57:52Z")
I’ll second _that_! Feel free to start such a thread in IMHO, and I’ll be along shortly. 😉
Van Basten’s goal against West-Germany (2-1) in the Euro 1988 semi-finals was one of the most extatic and happy moments in my life. And I mean that with all sincerity.
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### Author:  [@messiah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/messiah)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2001, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-you-yanks/54870/79 "2001-02-20T15:34:16Z")
Must admit I’m eternally (or to the end of his contract) grateful to the Dutch, for their export of Mr. (you wont get me in that thing) Bergkamp. Still a world-class player, but his 97/98 performance was truly awesome.
His compatriot turned Judus, Mr. Overmars also had the skill and class to tearify ones eyes, until his lamented departure to sunnier albeit less fruitful climes.
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### Author:  [@bwanasimba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bwanasimba)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2001, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-it-with-you-yanks/54870/80 "2001-02-20T16:38:17Z")
mmmm. Sounds like you’re an Arsenal fan. At least you might see Petit back soon 😉
Now, I’ve never started a thread before, so **Coldfire** , help me out if I muck it up.
LK
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