# What is left for voters to do when politicians ignore their demands? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 10, 2011, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-left-for-voters-to-do-when-politicians-ignore-their-demands/577866 "2011-04-10T13:59:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2011, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-left-for-voters-to-do-when-politicians-ignore-their-demands/577866/21 "2011-04-10T21:07:25Z")
> [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > But sadly, only the Tea Party stands on their principles and refuses to budge. > > Their opposition caves in more than a Chinese coal mine. And their disapproval numbers are now above 50% and climbing. One of the reasons they’re pushing so hard is that the writing is already on the wall for them and they expect to lose their influence over the next two election cycles. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2011, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-left-for-voters-to-do-when-politicians-ignore-their-demands/577866/22 "2011-04-10T21:46:24Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Change your system to one with more direct democracy. Representative Democracy is just a faint shadow of a real democracy anyway. It hardly merits the name “democracy”. The US and Mexican population should have been asked directly on the issue of NAFTA and there should have been a referendum on the issue of what to do with the Irish banks. Does that really make people better off? My impression of the California system is that they have referendums on everything and anything. Stuff that sounds popular gets passed, stuff that’s uncomfortable gets rejected. A referendum preventing deficit spending is easy to pass, a referendum raising state income tax isn’t. The result is that law makers are then forced to “respect the demands” made, but at the same time make cuts that no one likes. Eventually you’ll get a referendum that says, “Government isn’t allow to make budget cuts,” which would pass easily. And what happens if what the voters demand is unconstitutional??? ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2011, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-left-for-voters-to-do-when-politicians-ignore-their-demands/577866/23 "2011-04-10T22:06:25Z")
Simon Johnson wrote an article about the economic collapse > **[The Quiet Coup](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/05/the-quiet-coup/307364/)** > > The crash has laid bare many unpleasant truths about the United States. One of the most alarming, says a former chief economist of the International Monetary Fund, is that the finance industry has effectively captured our government—a state of... > [@](#): > > But these various policies—lightweight regulation, cheap money, the unwritten Chinese-American economic alliance, the promotion of homeownership—had something in common. Even though some are traditionally associated with Democrats and some with Republicans, they all benefited the financial sector. Chomsky also talked about ‘hawk’ vs ‘dove’ mentality in wars, how there is a debate on how to go about pursuing a war, but no debate on the morality of the war itself. [http://www.chomsky.info/interviews/20020126.htm](http://www.chomsky.info/interviews/20020126.htm) So it seems there is debate within certain parameters, but debate about those parameters or beyond them is off the table. You can have a democratic universal health care system that empowers corporate interests, or you can have a republican universal health care system that empowers corporate interests. But you can’t have one that disempowers corporate interests. I think our descent into plutocracy, on a national level, is so severe that you really can’t reverse it in 1 or 2 election cycles. This has been a 30+ year (arguably almost 50 years if you think it started in 1964 rather than 1980) battle to turn back the clock on the great society, civil rights movement and new deal. But what in my view can you do? Get involved in primaries on the national level (politicians only seem to care about power. If they lose a primary or spend so much money the can’t afford the general they may think twice about how they vote. It worked for the tea party) Get involved in politics on the state level. Single payer universal health care (as an example of a policy) isn’t realistic on a national level. But in states like VT, CA, IL, etc it may be realistic. And with issues like gay marriage or abolition, the states may lead the way for federal changes. Sadly though, people want it this way. Opinion polls may show majority support for rolling back the plutocracy. But people never vote with that in mind in any major numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2011, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-left-for-voters-to-do-when-politicians-ignore-their-demands/577866/24 "2011-04-10T22:07:42Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > Does that really make people better off? My impression of the California system is that they have referendums on everything and anything. Stuff that sounds popular gets passed, stuff that’s uncomfortable gets rejected. > > A referendum preventing deficit spending is easy to pass, a referendum raising state income tax isn’t. > > The result is that law makers are then forced to “respect the demands” made, but at the same time make cuts that no one likes. > > Eventually you’ll get a referendum that says, “Government isn’t allow to make budget cuts,” which would pass easily. > > And what happens if what the voters demand is unconstitutional??? That is when you have a referendum called “lets raise taxes on people who earn more money than I currently do or have any realistic chance in the future of earning”. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2011, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-left-for-voters-to-do-when-politicians-ignore-their-demands/577866/25 "2011-04-10T22:26:08Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > That is when you have a referendum called “lets raise taxes on people who earn more money than I currently do or have any realistic chance in the future of earning”. That is a childish response. the fact we have been cutting taxes to corporations and the wealthy on a continuing basis until we can no longer pay for the government. The Repubs said they would starve the beast and then flush it down the toilet. They have succeeded. It is not about trying to confiscate the wealth the rich. It about them paying their fair share. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2011, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-left-for-voters-to-do-when-politicians-ignore-their-demands/577866/26 "2011-04-10T22:29:31Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > Does that really make people better off? No, not at all. One might well say that the best system of government is that of an enlightened monarch. But in the end I chose to believe the power rests best with the people. Not because the outcome will be better, but because it is better that a man make his own bad decisions, than somebody else makes good ones on his behalf. > [@emacknight](#): > > And what happens if what the voters demand is unconstitutional??? The constitution is just a set of laws like any other. Not passed down from the heavens. Change them or delete them if they are in your way. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2011, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-left-for-voters-to-do-when-politicians-ignore-their-demands/577866/27 "2011-04-10T22:31:56Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > That is a childish response. the fact we have been cutting taxes to corporations and the wealthy on a continuing basis until we can no longer pay for the government. The Repubs said they would starve the beast and then flush it down the toilet. They have succeeded. It is not about trying to confiscate the wealth the rich. It about them paying their fair share. Sounds like the Republicans do a great job of doing what they’re elected to do. Granted it’s a shitty way to run a country, but the point remains it’s exactly the opposite of what the OP is whining about. And when not in the majority Republicans do what ever it takes to block, obstruct, and otherwise hinder government progress–exactly what their voters demand. Maybe the OP needs to be rewarded, “What is left for _librerals_ to do when their politicians can’t perform?” All this said by a guy that’s not allowed to vote for either party. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2011, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-left-for-voters-to-do-when-politicians-ignore-their-demands/577866/28 "2011-04-10T22:33:39Z")
> [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > And if you keep getting betrayed by the new people you vote in? Run _yourself_. You’ll either (A) show the bastards, or (B) learn how easy it isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2011, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-left-for-voters-to-do-when-politicians-ignore-their-demands/577866/29 "2011-04-10T22:34:20Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Run _yourself_. You’ll either (A) show the bastards, or (B) learn how easy it isn’t. Win. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2011, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-left-for-voters-to-do-when-politicians-ignore-their-demands/577866/30 "2011-04-10T22:37:03Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > America isn’t much more than a democracy in name only at this point. The politicians do what they are paid to do, not what they promise and not what the people who voted for them want. > > Doesn’t matter. The people with real power, the wealthy will still be there no matter who you vote for. The politicians will sacrifice their elected positions before they defy the wealthy. > > My answer would be “nothing”. The political system is too badly corrupted. There’s nothing to be done at this point but watch as the country becomes ever more corrupt and plutocratic. Oh really? Are we more more plutocratic then during the Gilded Age or more corrupt than during the '30s and '40s when many politicians were in the hands of the Mob? ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2011, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-left-for-voters-to-do-when-politicians-ignore-their-demands/577866/31 "2011-04-10T22:40:56Z")
In the United States many who are not rich nevertheless like and admire those who are. Any effort to reduce economic inequality will run into effective resistance. Once President Obama’s approval rating dipped below 50 percent and stayed there there was not much he could do to honor many of his campaign promises. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2011, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-left-for-voters-to-do-when-politicians-ignore-their-demands/577866/32 "2011-04-10T22:55:31Z")
It’s not that so much as that so many who are not rich have the delusion that they will become rich one day, and then won’t want to pay taxes. It doesn’t occur to them that the measures they support reduce the likelihood of their ever breaking into that class. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2011, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-left-for-voters-to-do-when-politicians-ignore-their-demands/577866/33 "2011-04-10T23:15:32Z")
A somewhat related thread: [What elected official most turned out to be a “Trojan Horse”?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-487645.html) ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-left-for-voters-to-do-when-politicians-ignore-their-demands/577866/34 "2011-04-11T00:16:37Z")
What to do? Get involved, get involved, get involved.If it’s always "them"and not “us” you’re voting for, don’t complain. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-left-for-voters-to-do-when-politicians-ignore-their-demands/577866/35 "2011-04-11T00:26:42Z")
> [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > I’ll simply respond to this by saying Der Trihs nailed it right on the head: Nothing? Nothing? OK, nothing. Then so what? Why start this thread? Why argue and disagree with other posters? You believe that democracy is pointless, yet you have no better idea. I can only assume that you agree with Churchill. ---
**Author:** ![montag01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/51bf81/32.png) [@montag01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/montag01)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-left-for-voters-to-do-when-politicians-ignore-their-demands/577866/36 "2011-04-11T00:49:45Z")
Simon & Garfunkel said it best in “Mrs. Robinson” - Laugh about it, shout about it When you’ve got to choose Every way you look at it, You lose. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-left-for-voters-to-do-when-politicians-ignore-their-demands/577866/37 "2011-04-11T01:03:55Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Nothing? Nothing? OK, nothing. > > Then so what? Why start this thread? Why argue and disagree with other posters? > > You believe that democracy is pointless, yet you have no better idea. I can only assume that you agree with Churchill. Not just democracy, capitalism too. We’re all doomed. Some how there is a not-democracy, not-capitalism solution out there, we just haven’t found it. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-left-for-voters-to-do-when-politicians-ignore-their-demands/577866/38 "2011-04-11T01:09:41Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > Not just democracy, capitalism too. We’re all doomed. That depends, sir, on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress! ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-left-for-voters-to-do-when-politicians-ignore-their-demands/577866/39 "2011-04-11T01:22:11Z")
Voting, then bitching about it are not the entire range of political actions available to you, as a citizen, and registered voter. Join your choice of parties, choosing the one least odious to you among the few that have some reasonable level of fielding a candidate who could win an election. Now start going to meeings of your party, and doing the work that that party needs to get done to field local candidates. Pay for the process. In work, in professional skills, and in time. Make yourself visible, and audible. Try to be reasonable, and rational. And above all, be consistant, and reliable. Be willing to accept some responsible position in local politics, and find others who believe something similar to you and get them registered, and active. If you can consistently deliver five warm bodies to party actions, you will gain respect, and also gain the willingness of others to come along. Never pretend to be able to do something you cannot. Begin to encourage your neighbors to expect more, and to require that your local politicians live up to the expectations of the electorate, or begin delivering those warm bodies to voting booths to run them out of office. It is a very long process, and a lot of work. It is the cost of democracy. Most Americans don’t pay it. So, they get the government they paid for. Tris ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-left-for-voters-to-do-when-politicians-ignore-their-demands/577866/40 "2011-04-11T02:37:57Z")
If I might also suggest: get informed. And I mean actually informed about topics. It’s not enough to know all the talking point for your side, learn what’s actually going on. It’s not enough to _demand_ tariffs, picket and protest, bitch and moan, stomp your feet. Learn what a tariff is, the effects, the upsides and downsides. If a huge chunk of the population think tariffs are a bad idea, make even a faint attempt to again, learn what a tariff is, then look at the points their making, and then re-evaluate to see if perhaps you were thinking of another word. If you keep demanding cake, but your parents keep giving you broccoli, there might be a reason beyond corruption. It’s possible they’ve been paid off by the yucky vegetable lobby group, or maybe they know something you refuse to learn. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-left-for-voters-to-do-when-politicians-ignore-their-demands/577866.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-left-for-voters-to-do-when-politicians-ignore-their-demands/577866.md?page=3)