# What is left in the still classified JFK assassination files? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 29, 2021, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-left-in-the-still-classified-jfk-assassination-files/953493 "2021-10-29T23:32:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2022, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-left-in-the-still-classified-jfk-assassination-files/953493/61 "2022-01-06T01:56:05Z")
I was thinking of the one where the bomb was planted under a table at a meeting. By officers if I’m not mistaken, ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2022, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-left-in-the-still-classified-jfk-assassination-files/953493/62 "2022-01-06T02:30:55Z")
My questions are generic enough to be used for the specific topic of this thread as well as any other ‘conspiracy theory’ that relies on ‘withheld’ information. Even if you know that information is withheld (as in the very specific case here) - how do you ‘know’ it confirms/denies any specific theory? Given the information that HAS been released and the overall consensus on what did, in fact, happen - how do you ‘know’ that the information that is being withheld materially changes any of it? ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2022, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-left-in-the-still-classified-jfk-assassination-files/953493/63 "2022-01-06T02:35:13Z")
> [@lum\_s\_husband](#): > > How do you know it isn’t? Because the evidence against Oswald is so strong. If your public library is any good, read this: > **[Marina and Lee](https://search.overdrive.com/media/1228849/marina-and-lee)** > > “The single best book ever written on the Kennedy assassination” — Thomas Mallon, author of Mrs. Paine's Garage: And the Murder of John F. Kennedy   “It is not at all easy to describe the power of Marina and Lee . . . It is far better than... ---
**Author:** ![lum\_s\_husband](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lum_s_husband/32/3698_2.png) [@lum\_s\_husband](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lum_s_husband)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2022, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-left-in-the-still-classified-jfk-assassination-files/953493/64 "2022-01-06T02:46:32Z")
I think that Oswald is guilty, but the idea that there cannot be anything of interest still classified is naïve. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2022, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-left-in-the-still-classified-jfk-assassination-files/953493/65 "2022-01-06T02:49:52Z")
I could believe a CT halfway between this and what Mallard was proposing. Perhaps Oswald acted alone and was not part of a conspiracy but thought that he was. The scene is a Mexican bar. Oswald over hears a couple of drunk Cuban Consoles ragging on JFK. He walks over to their table and offers to kill Kennedy in exchange for 1 millions dollars and Asylum in Havana. One of the Cubans rolls his eyes and mumbles “Yeah sure dude knock yourself out” and then blots the entire episode from his memory with a fresh bottle of tequila. While Oswald confidently carries out his secret mission on behalf of Castro. No evidence that this happened but it could have and that’s the important thing. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2022, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-left-in-the-still-classified-jfk-assassination-files/953493/66 "2022-01-06T02:52:18Z")
It is true to say that no conspiracy theory as the term is known has ever been proven. Saying that the CIA did stuff and finding out that the CIA did stuff is not a conspiracy theory. Saying that the CIA was behind Kennedy’s assassination because Oswald was an undercover agent for them is a conspiracy theory. Based on any understood definition of conspiracy theory in that manner, none are real. If you know of exceptions, please list them. If you want to take the matter to another thread, fine. But this has been thoroughly beaten to death many times and nothing has ever come out of them above the “what about the CIA doing stuff?” level. Also, and this shouldn’t need to be said but experience shows otherwise, the conspiracy theory has to exist before the reveal. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2022, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-left-in-the-still-classified-jfk-assassination-files/953493/67 "2022-01-06T02:55:45Z")
If anyone thinks that in the small percentage of assassination files that haven’t been declassified, there’s a memo that outlines Richard Nixon and Lyndon Johnson recruiting a group of Cubans to kill JFK with the cooperation of the Mafia, CIA, and Fidel Castro, I have one question. Why wasn’t the evidence of a conspiracy destroyed _before_ it was turned over to the Warren Commission? ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2022, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-left-in-the-still-classified-jfk-assassination-files/953493/68 "2022-01-06T02:57:04Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I just think that we can look at known conspiracies (who engaged in them, what steps did they take, how was it exposed, and how long did that take) and possibly apply those lessons to the alleged, but unproven, conspiracy theories. > > For example, I think that the more people are alleged to be in on a conspiracy, the faster it will come to light. This is a textbook example of confirmation bias. The conspiracies we know about we know about because the people involved were incompetent or because the time has come where secrecy is no longer needed. What did or did not happen in one conspiracy means precisely nothing about another conspiracy at a different time, serving a different purpose and with different actors. You’re effectively saying that because we know about a few dozen instances where a husband killed his wife in a fit of jealousy, that we can reliably predict that all other murdered women were killed by jealous husbands. It just doesn’t work like that. This isn’t me saying that there’s a JFK conspiracy, but people bringing in other assassinations or other true conspiracies are entirely irrelevant. They sure as shit wouldn’t be admissible as evidence in a trial for good reason. I can’t fathom what you think Trump’s Big Lie or Azorian have to do with an assassination of JFK in Dallas 60 years ago. They aren’t instructive, they have nothing in common with one another, and they tell us nothing at all about what’s true and untrue about Oswald et al. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2022, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-left-in-the-still-classified-jfk-assassination-files/953493/69 "2022-01-06T03:33:55Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > they tell us nothing at all about what’s true and untrue about Oswald et al Then what does? Also please answer my previous post. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2022, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-left-in-the-still-classified-jfk-assassination-files/953493/70 "2022-01-06T03:42:09Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > I could believe a CT halfway between this and what Mallard was proposing. Perhaps Oswald acted alone and was not part of a conspiracy but thought that he was. > > The scene is a Mexican bar. Oswald over hears a couple of drunk Cuban Consoles ragging on JFK. If you have, by some unintended miracle of coincidence, hit on a truth, I don’t think the conventional theory is halfway damaged, or damaged at all. At the heart of the Kennedy CT’s is a reversal of motive. They are denying the overwhelming evidence that JFK was killed because of his anti-communism. If other communist sympathizers encouraged Oswald, that’s not the kind of CT they’ve been pushing for 60 years, ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2022, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-left-in-the-still-classified-jfk-assassination-files/953493/71 "2022-01-06T03:47:53Z")
Actually its a textbook example of [selection bias](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selection_bias) not [confirmation bias](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias). But to your main point, in terms of speculating about the ability for a conspiracy to remain secret, the best data we have available is in conspiracies that were eventually revealed. those that have been revealed, and by looking at the way and speed with which they are revealed can tell us what characteristics a successful conspiracy is likely to have. For example conspiracies involving large number of people are harder to keep secret than those involving small numbers of people. Given that conspiracies that the revelation of conspiracies is often a matter of luck or an active decision by those involved it is unlikely that there is a complete dichotomy between revealed and unrevealed conspiracies. So saying that the former tells us nothing of the latter is false, and is better than speculating based on undiscovered conspiracies of which by definition there is no information at all. I might as well argue that in spite of eating nothing but junk food in from the of the TV and smoking 6 packs a day I’m going to live to 50., and then when its pointed out that my life style in not supportive of that assumption, say that that data was all based on people who died, and so isn’t relevant to me since I’m still alive. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2022, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-left-in-the-still-classified-jfk-assassination-files/953493/72 "2022-01-06T04:13:58Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Then what does? The facts of the case. Did this need to be said? As to your other question, I do not subscribe to your contorted definition. You’re effectively saying that any conspiracy that you consider plausible is not a conspiracy theory. It’s a bogus debate tactic. > [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Actually its a textbook example of [selection bias](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selection_bias) not [confirmation bias](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias). I was referring to selection bias, you’re correct, but I would argue that it fits both definitions. Without doing an exhaustive search I would predict that there are in fact known true conspiracies which in fact violate the above prescription, but they don’t resonate or are otherwise disqualified arbitrarily. > [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > For example conspiracies involving large number of people are harder to keep secret than those involving small numbers of people. We can neither say with confidence that this assumption is true nor can we say that all JFK theories require a large number of informed participants. You’re apparently assuming that the entire domain of conspiracies include the Mob, CIA, Communists, LBJ and any number of other officials. Saying Oswald did not act alone only says that it could be a conspiracy of at least 2. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2022, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-left-in-the-still-classified-jfk-assassination-files/953493/73 "2022-01-06T04:28:38Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Saying Oswald did not act alone only says that it could be a conspiracy of at least 2. Is that what you suspect? If so, do you have any suspicions as to who the other person might be? If not, why bother bringing up the possibility at all? ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2022, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-left-in-the-still-classified-jfk-assassination-files/953493/74 "2022-01-06T04:32:35Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If not, why bother bringing up the possibility at all? To point out how little “debate” is taking place here. I haven’t made a single claim about JFK and I’m under attack by pretty much everyone in the thread. Quite the hostile environment. The supposed “good guys” in this discussion are committing just as many fallacies as any conspiracy theorist might. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2022, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-left-in-the-still-classified-jfk-assassination-files/953493/75 "2022-01-06T04:45:47Z")
The “good guys” were hoping that you had new questions to add to the mix, ones that haven’t already been answered over and over and over again. But you didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2022, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-left-in-the-still-classified-jfk-assassination-files/953493/76 "2022-01-06T05:09:44Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > The facts of the case. Did this need to be said? The facts of the case do not support a conspiracy; they don’t even lead one to reasonably suspect one. The Warren Commission was scrupulous about tracking Oswald’s activities and finances leading up to the murder. He was poor throughout his life, and was a miser about money. No unexplained windfall or newfound possessions ever arrived. Nor did he have unexplained acquaintances or frequent bouts of leaving to parts unknown where he might be speaking with cohorts. When captured, Oswald did have another person’s ID, but it was merely another alias that he had created. There was no evidence that he had people he could contact. He certainly had no decent getaway plan. Nor have any witnesses presented plausible stories of some group effort. Who exactly was presumed to be conspiring with Oswald? It’s not enough to simply imagine other possibilities. You need to present a cogent description of how they occurred and then support it with some reputable facts. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2022, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-left-in-the-still-classified-jfk-assassination-files/953493/77 "2022-01-06T05:20:01Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > The assassination of Archduke Ferdinand is probably the prime example. But also, I’m not just counting the successful conspiracies, which by nature are going to be dominated by conspiracies of professionals and other competent actors. I’m also talking about folks like the chuds who plotted to kidnap the governor of Michigan, probably some percentage of the January 6th rioters, or basically the entire history of the KKK. Awhile back there was an Islamist plot to bomb some locations in Canada and murder the Prime Minister. They were, to say the very least, the B-team. As it turns out the authorities were tracking them the whole way, sold them the explosives they planned to use (which were inert, and they weren’t smart enough to know it) and a police mole was in their ranks from the get go. I am if anything understating the clownish nature of these guys. The thing is; had only one of them wanted to do something horrible on his own, he might have gotten away with it. If one guy had decided to get a rifle and shoot Stephen Harper he might have had some chance at success, because who would take notice of a guy buying a .30-06 and renting a car? But by getting together, they left a trail like a giant caterpillar; they were almost immediately under surveillance and was soon infiltrated by an undercover agent. Had Oswald conspired with other Oswalds, I think their odds of success plunge ninety percent. The plan would have been blown by someone and the authorities would have known. But by acting alone, it was possible for Oswald to take the steps needed to commit the crime. His major error along the way - and he was very lucky this didn’t get him caught - was his attempt on the life of Ted Walker. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2022, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-left-in-the-still-classified-jfk-assassination-files/953493/78 "2022-01-06T10:04:40Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > You’re effectively saying that because we know about a few dozen instances where a husband killed his wife in a fit of jealousy, that we can reliably predict that all other murdered women were killed by jealous husbands. It just doesn’t work like that. It actually works _just_ like that. If a woman is found dead in her home, and she is living with someone, the prime suspect will always be the spouse.The reason being that in the vast majority of the cases, _it is_ the spouse. Crimes are most often not solved by gathering evidence and clues and then find a culprit that matches. They are solved by starting with a hypotheses about who dunnit and trying to make that theory work, kinda like the scientific method. Since statistics tells us that “the husband did it,” cops will work with that assumption initially. Only if they can’t find anything corroborating that, will they (grudgingly) look into other possibilities. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2022, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-left-in-the-still-classified-jfk-assassination-files/953493/79 "2022-01-06T10:13:47Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Is that what you suspect? If so, do you have any suspicions as to who the other person might be? John Dillinger, of course. All five of him. _fnord_ ---
**Author:** ![Skunkdog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c2a13f/32.png) [@Skunkdog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skunkdog)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2022, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-left-in-the-still-classified-jfk-assassination-files/953493/80 "2022-01-06T10:57:06Z")
I am generally not one to buy into conspiracy theories, but several things about the JFK assassination never sat well with me. There were, of course, the many statements about shots coming from the grassy knoll. Then, there’s the fact that they caught Oswald in a dark movie theater less than two hours after he left the book depository. That seems awfully fast considering that he was an unknown gunman at the time. And lastly, Oswald was killed directly in front of news cameras by Jack Ruby while being flanked by two sheriffs who did nothing to stop it. Plus, he was gutshot, which tends to take a long time for someone to die. Yet, the coroners said Oswald died quickly. Those things alone make me feel there’s more to the assassination than we’ve been told. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-left-in-the-still-classified-jfk-assassination-files/953493.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-left-in-the-still-classified-jfk-assassination-files/953493.md?page=5)