# What is meant when describing garb as "Plus fours"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 26, 2006, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-meant-when-describing-garb-as-plus-fours/366053 "2006-07-26T05:44:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2006, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-meant-when-describing-garb-as-plus-fours/366053/1 "2006-07-26T05:44:24Z")
In a recent re-read of _Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire"_, I was struck by the fact that, at the age of fifty, I still haven’t learned this. In one of the early chapters, a lot of wizarding-types are running around trying to look like Muggles (non-magical civilians, for the uninitiated). One character is mentioned as wearing “plus-fours.” So, could an English-heritaged Doper be kind enough to tell me how I should picture this fellow in my mind’s eye? Is it a kind of boot that’s deliberately four sizes too big for the wearer? Is it a firefighter’s outfit of fire-retardent baggy pants, held up by suspenders, and topped with an over-sized coat? What are “plus-fours”? Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![A.R.Cane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@A.R.Cane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.R.Cane)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2006, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-meant-when-describing-garb-as-plus-fours/366053/2 "2006-07-26T06:36:20Z")
Probably the most common example is golf wear: [http://www.goodnewssports.com/info/news/pics/payne\_stewart200.jpg](http://www.goodnewssports.com/info/news/pics/payne_stewart200.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Baffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dec6dc/32.png) [@Baffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baffle)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2006, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-meant-when-describing-garb-as-plus-fours/366053/3 "2006-07-26T06:36:29Z")
[Wikipedia link.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plus_fours) ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2006, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-meant-when-describing-garb-as-plus-fours/366053/4 "2006-07-26T08:45:13Z")
Pants cut four inches below the knee: knee, “plus four”. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2006, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-meant-when-describing-garb-as-plus-fours/366053/5 "2006-07-26T12:11:29Z")
The only time I’ve ever seen this in “print” is in the “Our Gang” short “Election Day” (1929). Farina says something to his little sister about putting on her “Plus fours.” ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2006, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-meant-when-describing-garb-as-plus-fours/366053/6 "2006-07-26T12:34:53Z")
Ah. Thank you all very kindly. I thought Farina was supposed to be a guy. And it appears that [imdb agrees with me.](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0396012/) ---
**Author:** ![chaoticbear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@chaoticbear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chaoticbear)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2006, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-meant-when-describing-garb-as-plus-fours/366053/7 "2006-07-26T13:34:28Z")
I’m wearing these right now, except I call them man-capris. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2006, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-meant-when-describing-garb-as-plus-fours/366053/8 "2006-07-26T17:07:27Z")
Plus-fours are bloused over elastic or drawstring. Some hip-hop style shorts hang down to the right length, but they aren’t bloused, so they aren’t plus-fours. So, Big Boi isn’t copying Tintin, he’s got his own thang. I’m not disagreeing with **chaoticbear** , I’m just clarifying a detail. ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2006, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-meant-when-describing-garb-as-plus-fours/366053/9 "2006-07-26T17:45:04Z")
[QUOTE=Case Sensitive] Pants cut four inches below the knee: knee, “plus four”. [/QUOTE] Yes, there also exists “plus twos” and maybe any other value. ---
**Author:** ![Anastasaeon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@Anastasaeon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anastasaeon)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2006, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-meant-when-describing-garb-as-plus-fours/366053/10 "2006-07-26T17:53:54Z")
Damn. Learn something new every day. I was recently speaking with my grandmother, who is French, and the phrase “plus fours” made me think maybe it meant the clothes were really hot. You know, because in French it would translate into “more ovens”. Heh. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![chaoticbear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@chaoticbear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chaoticbear)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2006, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-meant-when-describing-garb-as-plus-fours/366053/11 "2006-07-26T19:14:53Z")
These are definitely man-capris, not anything hip-hop related. They’re like pants, but not. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2006, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-meant-when-describing-garb-as-plus-fours/366053/12 "2006-07-26T20:23:36Z")
[QUOTE=Bippy the Beardless] Yes, there also exists “plus twos” and maybe any other value. [/QUOTE] Heavy metal guitarists favour “plus ones”. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2006, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-meant-when-describing-garb-as-plus-fours/366053/13 "2006-07-26T20:57:07Z")
[QUOTE=Anastasaeon] I was recently speaking with my grandmother, who is French, and the phrase “plus fours” made me think maybe it meant the clothes were really hot. You know, because in French it would translate into “more ovens”. [/QUOTE] Well, further research indicates that “plus fours” is actually a corruption of the French _plus force_, or “much stronger”. It derives from gold miners in 19th Century Alaska, many of whom were of French-Canadian origin. Finding his existing pants not up to the rigours of his work, one miner asked a seamstress to make him “_culottes plus force_”: owing to the language confusion, she made him a long pair of shorts instead. These, of course, proved impractical for mining, but the pants caught the eye of a young Theodore Roosevelt, then visiting the territory, who brought these “plus fours” back with him and popularised them in New York society: hence, of course, the term “knickerbockers” which is sometimes also applied to them. ---
**Author:** ![h.sapiens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e0b2c6/32.png) [@h.sapiens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/h.sapiens)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2006, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-meant-when-describing-garb-as-plus-fours/366053/14 "2006-07-26T21:06:50Z")
When I see the term “plus fours” I think of the kind of gaudy golf-knickers Bertie Wooster would insist on wearing, against the advice of Jeeves. ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2006, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-meant-when-describing-garb-as-plus-fours/366053/15 "2006-07-26T21:21:13Z")
[QUOTE=Case Sensitive] Well, further research indicates that “plus fours” is actually a corruption of the French _plus force_, or “much stronger”. It derives from gold miners in 19th Century Alaska, many of whom were of French-Canadian origin. Finding his existing pants not up to the rigours of his work, one miner asked a seamstress to make him “_culottes plus force_”: owing to the language confusion, she made him a long pair of shorts instead. These, of course, proved impractical for mining, but the pants caught the eye of a young Theodore Roosevelt, then visiting the territory, who brought these “plus fours” back with him and popularised them in New York society: hence, of course, the term “knickerbockers” which is sometimes also applied to them. [/QUOTE] Do you have a citation for this, or are you just making a joke here? ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2006, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-meant-when-describing-garb-as-plus-fours/366053/16 "2006-07-26T23:10:10Z")
[QUOTE=Bippy the Beardless] Do you have a citation for this, or are you just making a joke here? [/QUOTE] [Why, certainly.](http://www.lakelandschools.org/lt/NewYorkVM/peopleroosevelt2.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2006, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-meant-when-describing-garb-as-plus-fours/366053/17 "2006-07-26T23:53:55Z")
[QUOTE=Case Sensitive] [Why, certainly.](http://www.lakelandschools.org/lt/NewYorkVM/peopleroosevelt2.htm) [/QUOTE] Sory, but I can’t find any mention of Plus fours in the whole of that Theodore Rooservelt section. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2006, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-meant-when-describing-garb-as-plus-fours/366053/18 "2006-07-27T07:18:51Z")
The pants Auric Goldfinger is wearing at the Golf Club in the movie _Goldfinger_ are “Plus Fours”, if you’re looking for a pop-culture usage of them… ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2006, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-meant-when-describing-garb-as-plus-fours/366053/19 "2006-07-27T15:02:36Z")
[QUOTE=Bippy the Beardless] Yes, there also exists “plus twos” and maybe any other value. [/QUOTE] So short-shorts are minus-fifteens? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2006, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-meant-when-describing-garb-as-plus-fours/366053/20 "2006-07-27T15:02:41Z")
[QUOTE=Bippy the Beardless] Sory, but I can’t find any mention of Plus fours in the whole of that Theodore Rooservelt section. [/QUOTE] I do believe that is a joke, sir. 🙂 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-meant-when-describing-garb-as-plus-fours/366053.md?page=2)