# What is money laundering? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 10, 2017, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-money-laundering/788595 "2017-06-10T15:44:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2017, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-money-laundering/788595/41 "2017-06-10T23:28:15Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > How long did you hold your home? Did you sell it to a rich oligarch who is a putin friend? > > Do you really think this sale is normal? > > So at the end of this, if it is “funny,” are you going to be shocked? You gave an example of a sale that has happened more than once with large properties, and are only calling it odd because the seller made a large profit. It happens and that does not mean it is money laundering. There are other questions to aszk before asking if it is a case of money laundering. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2017, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-money-laundering/788595/42 "2017-06-10T23:31:50Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The United States and each state also define what’s illegal, and they are not dictatorships. So while it’s true that dictatorships define what’s illegal,\* so do other forms of government\*. > > The only one muddying anything here is you. You’ve gone from a vague assertion about one crime to mumbling about fake news and dictatorships without forming a single clear argument. > > What, specifically, is your argument? I’m fairly confident with the idea that US and it’s subdivisions lawmaking is not analogous to russia or other authoritarian dictatorships. That’s just my taste. I’m also pretty sure that, by US standards, most of the gains of russian oligarchs are ill-gotten. So if donny has chasing them we have a civic problem. The thread should probably have been based around this as it’s topic: > **[Foreign Corrupt Practices Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Corrupt_Practices_Act)** > > The Foreign Corrupt Practices Act of 1977 (FCPA) (15 U.S.C. § 78dd-1, et seq.) is a United States federal law that prohibits U.S. citizens and entities from bribing foreign government officials to benefit their business interests. > The FCPA is applicable worldwide and extends specifically to publicly traded companies and their personnel, including officers, directors, employees, shareholders, and agents. Following amendments made in 1998, the Act also applies to foreign firms and persons who, e... ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2017, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-money-laundering/788595/43 "2017-06-10T23:33:57Z")
> [@Snnipe\_70E](#): > > You gave an example of a sale that has happened more than once with large properties, and are only calling it odd because the seller made a large profit. It happens and that does not mean it is money laundering. There are other questions to aszk before asking if it is a case of money laundering. What are you trying to say? I’m trying to say that money laundering is one of a number of corrupt practices which are adjacent to each other. The more money involved, the stranger any transaction, and the more lies around it, the more we need answers. ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2017, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-money-laundering/788595/44 "2017-06-10T23:37:52Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > A terrific amount of expensive properties in London and the Home Counties — and I have no doubt in America and France — were sold to massively wealthy Russians from the 1990s to now. Were all these sellers being bribed or wanting contacts with Dread Vladimir ? > You would have done better to make a thread on Trump’s property deals and leave money laundering out of it. I agree with this statement. The money laundering comment shows an ax to grind no matter what the facts are. If he sold the property at market value does not hold up. Money can be made by flipping property large money. ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2017, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-money-laundering/788595/45 "2017-06-10T23:39:10Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > What are you trying to say? > > I’m trying to say that money laundering is one of a number of corrupt practices which are adjacent to each other. The more money involved, the stranger any transaction, and the more lies around it, the more we need answers. Explain how flipping a property and selling it at market price can be money laundering? ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2017, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-money-laundering/788595/46 "2017-06-10T23:39:14Z")
> [@Snnipe\_70E](#): > > I agree with this statement. The money laundering comment shows an ax to grind no matter what the facts are. If he sold the property at market value does not hold up. Money can be made by flipping property large money. Can I ask where you are from? ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2017, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-money-laundering/788595/47 "2017-06-10T23:40:25Z")
> [@Snnipe\_70E](#): > > Explain how flipping a property and selling it at market price can be money laundering? I’m trying to say that money laundering is one of a number of corrupt practices which are adjacent to each other. The more money involved, the stranger any transaction, and the more lies around it, the more we need answers. Explain how donald knows Dmitry Rybolovlev. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2017, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-money-laundering/788595/48 "2017-06-11T00:15:15Z")
Thus, Trumpo buys a building; Trumpo sells that building; [_At this point a miracle occurs_]; Trumpo has so committed money laundering; this means Trumpo has committed a number of allied corrupt practices; we demand **answers** ; Trumpo is impeached for his property selling to a RUSSIAN; Trumpo is sent to jail for the rest of his natural. Hillary is acclaimed **Winner** and is president for life ! And no-one knows who Dmitry Rybolovlev is. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2017, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-money-laundering/788595/49 "2017-06-11T01:13:43Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > I’m trying to say that money laundering is one of a number of corrupt practices which are adjacent to each other. The more money involved, the stranger any transaction, and the more lies around it, the more we need answers. > > Explain how donald knows Dmitry Rybolovlev. You are trying to make up an accusation of crime or corruption out of thin air. What exactly happened that was illegal or unethical? Nothing, that you know of. You just don’t like Trump and so you are going to pick on everything he does. There was nothing strange about the transaction except two very wealthy men making a record-setting transaction. Why are you not accepting this at face value? I don’t like him either, but I’m rational. ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2017, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-money-laundering/788595/50 "2017-06-11T01:28:14Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Can I ask where you are from? California where people who make money in real estate are considered evil. Where are you from? ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2017, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-money-laundering/788595/51 "2017-06-11T01:32:24Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > I’m trying to say that money laundering is one of a number of corrupt practices which are adjacent to each other. The more money involved, the stranger any transaction, and the more lies around it, the more we need answers. > > Explain how donald knows Dmitry Rybolovlev. You have not explained how there is any appearance of money laundering. Other than Trump flipped a property at a profit and he knows Dmitry Rybolovlev. My guess Trump had a property to sell Dmitry Rybolovlev wanted to buy the property. And you are turning these facts into a crime? 2 years ago I sold a property in Las Vegas to someone I never met by your standard that makes me a criminal and a dictator. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2017, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-money-laundering/788595/52 "2017-06-11T01:46:04Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > In the case of russian oligarchs, what is their motive for these transactions? What is it accomplishing in terms of financial and legal aims? All we can do is speculate. What would the oligarch get out of it? I don’t think much, however Putin has the oligarchs on a leash and he has supposedly worked with Trump for years according to Christopher Steele (Steele claims that Trump has spied on powerful Russians in the US and given that info to Putin). Steele said that Trump didn’t take up sweetheart deals that the Russians offered him FWIW. But I really don’t know what an oligarch gets out of paying 2x more for a home. Generally the person laundering the money is the one that buys something cheap and sells it more expensively. Not the person who buys it expensively. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2017, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-money-laundering/788595/53 "2017-06-11T04:19:42Z")
Just for interest, Kentucky governor Matt Bevin is currently involved in a similar situation: > **[Ethics complaint targets Bevin over Anchorage home](https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/2017/05/26/ethics-complaint-filed-over-gov-matt-bevins-anchorage-home/348419001/)** > > Commission could investigate whether the sale of Bevin's Anchorage mansion was improper Long story short: Bevin just bought a house in a swank neighborhood of Louisville from a political supporter of his for $1.6 million, even though the PVA valued it at $2.57 million. Said supporter was also recently appointed to the board of the KY retirement system, a position of some influence since it controls a very large fund. Now there are plenty of reasons why a house might sell for that much less than its assessed value. But that’s also why this would be a pretty effective way to bribe someone who didn’t care about the appearance of impropriety, since actually proving that as the motive would be nearly impossible. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2017, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-money-laundering/788595/54 "2017-06-11T17:14:26Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > All we can do is speculate. What would the oligarch get out of it? I don’t think much, however Putin has the oligarchs on a leash and he has supposedly worked with Trump for years according to Christopher Steele (Steele claims that Trump has spied on powerful Russians in the US and given that info to Putin). > > Steele said that Trump didn’t take up sweetheart deals that the Russians offered him FWIW. > > But I really don’t know what an oligarch gets out of paying 2x more for a home. Generally the person laundering the money is the one that buys something cheap and sells it more expensively. Not the person who buys it expensively. I think we’re in a new normal that consists of the super rich and connected greasing the skids for each other in many ways. We’re at a crossroads. We can either use common sense and “follow the money” or else lie down and play dead by saying “but there is no law against that thing you just cited, on the books right now” I don’t think we have time to do that. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2017, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-money-laundering/788595/55 "2017-06-11T17:26:31Z")
Also Wesley: The oligarch, in the most simple scenario, may be an emissary of putin and doing his bidding in the relationship between one leader and another, when they both are acting in the interests of themselves and not the nations they are leading. It doesn’t take a very vivid imagination to see that these things have motives to them. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-money-laundering/788595/56 "2017-06-12T18:30:22Z")
> [@LicketySplit](#): > > I am wondering why? > > Couldnt you rebut me? > > I welcome a separate thread on this issue or a related one where you and I can debate this line of thought. That being: I claim that most of Trump’s detractors do so only in view of his wealth. If he was less wealthy, say, about that of the overage POTUS over the past three decades, his detractors and amount of negative press would be halved. Are you also extremely wealthy? Because if not, I’m curious how, as a person of ordinary means, you think your interests align with Donald Trumps. > [@](#): > > In what way would this work, using our president as an example? > > For instance he sold his Florida home for a 60 million dollar profit, after owning it for two years, to a russian oligarch (who proceeded to tear it down.) It was a 150% profit and the highest single home sale record for the US. > > Donald has denied ever meeting this man, but FAA records say that their planes have been in the same airports many times etc. > > In the case of Russian oligarchs, what is their motive for these transactions? What is it accomplishing in terms of financial and legal aims? This is not necessarily “money laundering” just because he sold an expensive house to a Russian billionaire for a large profit. However, it could be if the intent was to use the sale to hide the true source of the money. I think there is also a bit of confusion here between “money laundering” which is the concealing of the source of money and “racketeering” which is the conducting of a fraudulent or illegal business itself. ---
**Author:** ![Hermitian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hermitian/32/470_2.png) [@Hermitian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermitian)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-money-laundering/788595/57 "2017-06-12T19:10:12Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > “Here it is. To conseal the source of money as by channeling it through an intermediary.” > [@msmith537](#): > > I can’t believe what a bunch of nerds we are. We’re looking up money laundering on the SDMB. I am surprised it took that long to get there. [https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder844/71612844.jpg](https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder844/71612844.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2017, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-money-laundering/788595/58 "2017-06-12T19:35:00Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Also Wesley: The oligarch, in the most simple scenario, may be an emissary of putin and doing his bidding in the relationship between one leader and another, when they both are acting in the interests of themselves and not the nations they are leading. It doesn’t take a very vivid imagination to see that these things have motives to them. I like the word ‘emissary’. ‘Emissary of [del]Satan[/del] Putin’. The _Mephistopheles_ to the Donaldian Faust… Tragic, eh ? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-money-laundering/788595.md?page=2)