# What is Monty Python's genius? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 21, 2013, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-monty-pythons-genius/647961 "2013-01-21T23:55:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-monty-pythons-genius/647961/41 "2013-01-23T14:51:46Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > (Frankly, as I remember it, the _1948 Show_ was not very different in style from Python, and not very much less funny. Unfortunately, apparently, the tapes, apart from one or two fragments, were not preserved, so it is impossible to properly verify this.) At least five episodes survive and have been released on DVD. Amazon (US) currently has both this and the companion volume of nine episodes of _Do Not Adjust Your Set_ at a ridiculously low blow-out price. This probably won’t last, so interested parties better pounce. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-monty-pythons-genius/647961/42 "2013-01-23T16:09:41Z")
Fwiw I’m always struck by how heavily The Beatles referenced The Goons in their very early interviews - not often directly but it’s always present in their ad libs and interview chatter. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-monty-pythons-genius/647961/43 "2013-01-24T01:55:28Z")
> [@rowrrbazzle](#): > > Assuming this is not a whoosh… It was a dry play on **Floater** ’s also-dry comment on “one Jonathan Lynn.” We’re getting meta out the wazoo here. > [@Zakalwe](#): > > Also, for the US, the fact that it’s done in a British accent and uses unfamiliar cultural references made it “cooler” back in the day. Yeah, my roommate had all the albums up until then so when our PBS station started showing them in '73 or '74 I had already heard the best bits so often that I was sick of them so I could play blase when people started talking about MP. I was cooler than shit. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-monty-pythons-genius/647961/44 "2013-01-24T07:58:34Z")
Question: I love Monty Python so very very much, but I recently watched their _History of the World_ for the first time, on Netflix, and it only rated a “mildly amusing” on my comedy radar. Aside from the “Every Sperm is Special (?)” bit, I just didn’t think it was up to MP’s usual standards. Am I missing something? ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-monty-pythons-genius/647961/45 "2013-01-24T08:40:19Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > Question: I love Monty Python so very very much, but I recently watched their _History of the World_ for the first time, on Netflix, and it only rated a “mildly amusing” on my comedy radar. Aside from the “Every Sperm is Special (?)” bit, I just didn’t think it was up to MP’s usual standards. Am I missing something? You mean _The Meaning of Life_, I think, and no, it certainly isn’t their best work. It was the last true Python project, after a gap of several years, and they were getting older and running out of ideas by then. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-monty-pythons-genius/647961/46 "2013-01-24T09:13:11Z")
One cannot overlook their ability with music, or at least, to craft alternate lyrics and duly deliver. I always particularly liked the mideval agrarian history sketch, which combines drab study with song (never saw it, only heard it on that damnable split-track album). Even Cleese’s rants, like Word Association Football have a sort of musical quality to them. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-monty-pythons-genius/647961/47 "2013-01-24T09:15:56Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > You mean _The Meaning of Life_, I think, and no, it certainly isn’t their best work. It was the last true Python project, after a gap of several years, and they were getting older and running out of ideas by then. :smack: Yes, _The Meaning of Life_. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-monty-pythons-genius/647961/48 "2013-01-24T12:10:13Z")
Where every sperm is _sacred_. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-monty-pythons-genius/647961/49 "2013-01-24T15:29:47Z")
I read a long time ago that the reason John Cleese quit was because he “woke up and wasn’t angry anymore.” That line stuck with me, because it seems that the best comedians are the ones who have a beef. You’d think comedy should come from a light place, but it doesn’t. Not the best comedy, anyway. Carlin, Hicks, Pryor, Bruce, Belushi, Izzard, they all had a bone to pick with the world. Same with the Pythons. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-monty-pythons-genius/647961/50 "2013-01-24T15:33:41Z")
It’s true that comedy often comes from negativity. Pretty much all the smartass commenters I can think of usually do their best stuff when talking about things they dislike or highlighting how something doesn’t make sense. What do you think the Pythons were angry against? How did they translate that anger into humor? ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-monty-pythons-genius/647961/51 "2013-01-24T15:43:22Z")
In the late 60s and early 70s UK society was still in revolution. Pick almost any area of life and it needed radical change. Even if you were middle class, privileged and talented. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-monty-pythons-genius/647961/52 "2013-01-25T01:14:07Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > You mean _The Meaning of Life_, I think, and no, it certainly isn’t their best work. It was the last true Python project, after a gap of several years, and they were getting older and running out of ideas by then. It was also a bit of a money issue. They were told that not only was the studio willing to finance one more Python film, all of their accountants told them that if it was even a modest hit they’d all never have to really work again if they didn’t want to. At that point in their careers only Cleese (with his Video Arts company) was financially well off, so they did it. They all admit that while there is a lot of funny stuff in it, it’s essentially a ‘sketch’ movie and it never quite jells together the way Grail and Brian did. When writing it they tried & tried to come up with a cohesive narrative, but time ran out so that just went with the sketches they had and linked them under the rather vague theme of ‘the meaning of life’… ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-monty-pythons-genius/647961/53 "2013-01-25T01:37:10Z")
> [@Seanette](#): > > My personal favorite is “The Pope and Michelangelo”, aka “The Penultimate Supper”. WordMan’s post describes this sketch quite well. > [@Floater](#): > > Which, like Four Yorkshiremen, to the best of my knowledge is not a Monty Python sketch. > [@Seanette](#): > > With all due respect, you are incorrect. They perform both in the “Live at the Hollywood Bowl” video. They did perform them there, but that doesn’t mean they originated them. They did not. > [@dropzone](#): > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6pZUyZEphs](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6pZUyZEphs) Probably from their time in the Cambridge Circus together, though [ That recording is from the soundtrack record of a charity show (a predecessor of the **Secret Policemen’s Ball** shows) called [URL=“[A Poke in the Eye (With a Sharp Stick) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Poke_in_the_Eye_(With_a_Sharp_Stick))”]A Poke in the Eye with a Sharp Stick]( [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6pZUyZEphs](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6pZUyZEphs)), later released as a film [Pleasure at Her Majesty’s](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleasure_At_Her_Majesty%27s). > [@](#): > > Furthermore, Python itself did not come out of nowhere. Cleese and Chapman had already been doing something very similar on At Last the 1948 Show, and Idle on Please Do Not Adjust Your Set, and Palin and Jones on shows like The Complete and Utter History of Britain, were also moving strongly in the same direction. Bringing them together, and adding Terry Gilliam to the mix, made it gel to perfection, but most of the ingredients were already there. Before those shows, aside from Gilliam they’d all worked on the Frost Report, although not necessarily together. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-monty-pythons-genius/647961/54 "2013-01-25T03:30:34Z")
I have to admit that David Frost, despite (IMHO) being incapable of delivering a joke or functioning as a decent straight man by not breaking up or looking like he was reading, had an eye for talent. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-monty-pythons-genius/647961/55 "2013-01-25T09:03:45Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > Before those shows, aside from Gilliam they’d all worked on the Frost Report, although not necessarily together. Although Cleese was an important performer on _The Frost Report_, so far as I am aware, the other Pythons never appeared, but were just members of the (large) group of writers who contributed to the show. Furthermore, as I recall it (mind you, I was just a kid at the time), there was nothing particularly “pythonesque” about the humor or general format of the show. It does, however (like the Cambridge Footlights society) constitute a direct link between the Pythons and the earlier generation of British “satire” comedy that I mentioned before. Frost had made his name as presenter of _That Was the Week That Was_, which truly was satirical. The other major precursor of Python that I forgot to mention was _I’m Sorry I’ll Read That Again_ on the radio. Again, the only Python actually in it was Cleese (although I think Idle did quite a lot of the writing, I think, and perhaps other Pythons did some too), but again it was “educated” humor that relied a lot on pace and silliness, and is a lot more pythonesque in spirit than any of Frost’s stuff ever was. (It also relied very heavily on puns, which may help explain Cleese’s late aversion to them.) _I’m Sorry I’ll Read That Again_ (of which _lots_ of episodes survive) is still being [“webcast” regularly by the BBC](http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b009zbr2) on [Radio 4 Extra](http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4extra/). IMHO it still holds up. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2013, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-monty-pythons-genius/647961/56 "2013-01-26T01:45:38Z")
Q: What is Monty Python’s Genius? A: Monty Python’s geniuses were Graham Chapman, John Cleese, Michael Palin, Erik Idle, Terry Gilliam, and Terry Jones. ---
**Author:** ![Jungian\_Camisole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8baadc/32.png) [@Jungian\_Camisole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jungian_Camisole)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2013, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-monty-pythons-genius/647961/57 "2013-01-26T02:04:59Z")
The following from Secret Service Dentists: “Big Cheese: I’m glad you could all come to my little party. And Flopsy’s glad too, aren’t you, Flopsy? (he holds rabbit up as it does not reply) Aren’t you Flopsy? (no reply again so he pulls a big revolver out and fires at rabbit from point-blank range) That’ll teach you to play hard to get. There, poor Flopsy’s dead. And never called me mother. And soon you will all be dead, dead, dead, dead. (the crowd start to hiss him) And because I’m so evil you’ll all die the slow way… under the drill.” Had me absolutely dying on the floor when I first saw it. Others above are correct; the absurdity and non-sequitors were pitch perfect. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-monty-pythons-genius/647961/58 "2013-02-05T11:57:39Z")
> [@Floater](#): > > I have tried to find the origin of _The Penultimate Supper_, but haven’t come any closer than that it was written and performed by Cleese and one Jonathan Lynn. The sketch was written by John Cleese for\* Monty Python\* but was banned by the BBC who called it blasphemous. Jonathan Lynn in [Comedy Rules: From the Cambridge Footlights to Yes Prime Minister](http://www.amazon.com/Comedy-Rules-Cambridge-Footlights-Minister/dp/0571277950) recounts the story of Cleese getting him to act in it to “try it out.” He refers to the sketch as “The Last Supper.” The Lynn book is a beauty by the way, particularly for fans of that whole school of British comedy, but you’ll deduce that from the Amazon link. The sample ends just a page or two before the reference to the sketch however. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-monty-pythons-genius/647961/59 "2013-02-05T15:53:40Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > Although Cleese was an important performer on _The Frost Report_, so far as I am aware, the other Pythons never appeared, but were just members of the (large) group of writers who contributed to the show. “Worked on” includes writers. Writers do “work.” They even work. The actors don’t make it up as they go along, not even the Pythons. Especially the Pythons, who virtually never ad-libbed. They were brilliant performers of their own words, true, but watch them in movies written by others and they are basically average. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-monty-pythons-genius/647961/60 "2013-02-05T16:38:05Z")
> [@Floater](#): > > Where every sperm is _sacred_. I was working a truck gate and we were allowed to watch movies on my portable DVD player during the slow times. My co-worker was @22 years old and had never seen MP. We get to the big ESIS production number, kids cartwheeling down the alley, the whole thing, and he turns to me and says “I don’t get it. Is this supposed to be funny?” :smack: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-monty-pythons-genius/647961.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-monty-pythons-genius/647961.md?page=4)