# What is name of this style of shirt worn in old Westerns? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 13, 2014, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-name-of-this-style-of-shirt-worn-in-old-westerns/698407 "2014-09-13T18:50:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2014, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-name-of-this-style-of-shirt-worn-in-old-westerns/698407/1 "2014-09-13T18:50:54Z")
What is the name of this style of shirt, worn by John Wayne in, “The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance”? [![](https://myfavoritewesterns.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/the-man-who-shot-liberty-valance-woody-strode-and-wayne.jpg) ](https://myfavoritewesterns.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/the-man-who-shot-liberty-valance-woody-strode-and-wayne.jpg) I know it probably isn’t authentic western wear, but it is commonly seen in old Westerns. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2014, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-name-of-this-style-of-shirt-worn-in-old-westerns/698407/2 "2014-09-13T19:00:44Z")
Looks like a Classic Bib Front Cowboy Shirt. [Here’s a modern version](http://www.lostworldsinc.com/Vintage_Western_Cowboy_Shirt_Bib.htm) in a fabric I find garish… I love vintage Western Wear. “Authentic”? Who knows? Here are some [better (& cheaper) ones](http://blanchesplace.com/frontier-classics/83-longview-men-s-cowboy-bib-front-shirt.html)… ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2014, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-name-of-this-style-of-shirt-worn-in-old-westerns/698407/3 "2014-09-13T19:08:07Z")
More here > **[Western clothing, Old West Fashions, Western fashion](https://www.fashion1800.com/)** > > Western clothing, Old West Fashions, Western fashion, Western clothing for men. Western clothing and fashion for women. Western clothes for children, kids. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2014, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-name-of-this-style-of-shirt-worn-in-old-westerns/698407/4 "2014-09-13T19:31:32Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Looks like a Classic Bib Front Cowboy Shirt. I’ve heard them called ‘cavalry bib’ shirts. I used to have (well, still have – somewhere) a paisley Wah Maker (brand) shirt similar to [this one](http://www.wwmerc.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?item=540720-BK&type=store&category=3110). Wore the hell out of it 20 years ago. Faded now, but I never did throw it away. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2014, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-name-of-this-style-of-shirt-worn-in-old-westerns/698407/5 "2014-09-13T20:17:58Z")
In military fashion it’s called a _plastron_, after the armor breastplate it evolved from. ---
**Author:** ![HelenGawn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@HelenGawn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelenGawn)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2014, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-name-of-this-style-of-shirt-worn-in-old-westerns/698407/6 "2014-09-13T21:56:16Z")
I always called it the “Make the Duke’s Shoulders Look Even Wider.” ---
**Author:** ![Amberlei](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e56c9b/32.png) [@Amberlei](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amberlei)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-name-of-this-style-of-shirt-worn-in-old-westerns/698407/7 "2014-09-14T00:29:14Z")
These are actually very authentic and have a really interesting history. Now, as Slithy Tove said, they’re known as plastron shirts, though they were first known as fireman’s shirts. Back in the 1800’s firemen both in the UK and the US wore removable plastrons (the bib, or shield) over their shirtfronts, with the reasoning being that it’s easier and cheaper to replace a plastron than an entire shirt. In 1851, Singer sewing machines made their debut, allowing the introduction of mass-produced clothing, with some of the first mass-produced items being fireman’s shirts and bibs. The civil war helped to popularize fireman’s shirts in a couple of ways. Firstly, when the civil war broke out, many entire companies of firemen enlisted en masse, leading to regiments where all members wore them. For example, the Eleventh New York Infantry, composed almost entirely of firemen, adopted a uniform consisting of red fireman’s shirts with grey jackets and trousers. Similarly the 73rd New York Volunteer Infantry Regiment adopted a uniform consisting of red firemen’ shirts with a blue jacket and trousers and a red fez. It’s difficult to find existing photos of Union soldiers wearing their fireman’s shirts, mostly due to the fact that they were considered undershirts, to be worn under a jacket. In the south, some regiments wore these shirts, as well as similar shirts known as piedmonts (rather than a rectangle or trapezoid, the plastrons were narrower at top and bottom but widened in the center) as “battle shirts,” decorated shirts worn over an undershirt in lieu of a jacket. Not all battle shirts were of this variety, however. Many were just normal shirts with some sort of design element such as a different colored trim. The First Battalion of Louisiana wore red fireman’s shirts underneath a blue jacket with blue and white striped trousers and a red fez. Because mass-clothing producers already had a system in place for rapid manufacture of these shirts, they were easy to produce early in the war, though became much less so later. Homemade versions arose, with some of these having rounded or ovalish plastrons. Once the war was over, the shirts moved west with the soldiers. Billy the Kid wore one, as did Wyatt Earp. George Custer had at least two, a blue one and a buckskin one. The Seventh Cavalry officers had adopted blue fireman’s shirts as an unofficial uniform, even though it was against regulation, and it is believed Custer was wearing one at the Battle of Little Big Horn. [https://cabinetcardgallery.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/dundee-fire.jpg](https://cabinetcardgallery.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/dundee-fire.jpg) (Firemen) [myrtle-avenue.com](http://www.myrtle-avenue.com/hoodchasseur.jpg) (Union soldiers from the Eleventh NY infantry) [http://www.historicsandusky.org/uniforms.htm](http://www.historicsandusky.org/uniforms.htm) (Confederate soldiers with piedmont shirts) [Civil War Virtual Museum | Wilsons Creek Campaign | Thomas Issac Duvall & William Duvall](http://www.civilwarvirtualmuseum.org/1861-1862/wilsons-creek-campaign/thomas-issac-duvall-william-duvall.php) (Battle shirts) [http://www.bluegrayreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/32605r.jpg](http://www.bluegrayreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/32605r.jpg) (Another battle shirt) [http://www.pinterest.com/pin/384917099375066316/](http://www.pinterest.com/pin/384917099375066316/) (Homemade shirt with rounded plastron) [http://truewest.ning.com/profiles/blogs/billy-the-kid-s-fireman-shirt?id=2518161%3ABlogPost%3A315132&page=3](http://truewest.ning.com/profiles/blogs/billy-the-kid-s-fireman-shirt?id=2518161%3ABlogPost%3A315132&page=3) (Billy the Kid) [Robin Chapman News: The Origins of a Shirt Made Famous by John Wayne](http://robinchapmannews.blogspot.com/2009/04/origins-of-shirt-made-famous-by-john.html) (Interesting article on the shirt’s history) ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-name-of-this-style-of-shirt-worn-in-old-westerns/698407/8 "2014-09-14T23:25:23Z")
Very interesting, Amberlei. What do you know about sailor’s shirts? ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-name-of-this-style-of-shirt-worn-in-old-westerns/698407/9 "2014-09-15T00:00:02Z")
> [@Amberlei](#): > > Back in the 1800’s firemen both in the UK and the US wore removable plastrons (the bib, or shield) over their shirtfronts, with the reasoning being that it’s easier and cheaper to replace a plastron than an entire shirt. Maybe. Or maybe they were imitating the _kurtka_ worn by [Uhlan](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uhlan) and lancer regiments in European armies. > [@Amberlei](#): > > George Custer had at least two, a blue one and a buckskin one. The Seventh Cavalry officers had adopted blue fireman’s shirts as an unofficial uniform, even though it was against regulation, and it is believed Custer was wearing one at the Battle of Little Big Horn. In Custer’s case, I am of the opinion that he was probably mimicking the Europeans. ---
**Author:** ![Amberlei](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e56c9b/32.png) [@Amberlei](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amberlei)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-name-of-this-style-of-shirt-worn-in-old-westerns/698407/10 "2014-09-15T00:10:04Z")
> [@TexCat](#): > > Very interesting, Amberlei. What do you know about sailor’s shirts? Thanks, but unfortunately I don’t know anything about sailor’s shirts. I only know about the plastron shirts because I used to rodeo in high school and a group of us once got into a big argument about just what authentic western wear really consisted of. Never one to admit to being wrong without putting up a fight, I spent at least a couple of weeks doing research on the history of western shirts. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-name-of-this-style-of-shirt-worn-in-old-westerns/698407/11 "2014-09-15T00:25:01Z")
Can I field that one then? Do you mean the [striped Russian pullover?](http://m.rbth.com/arts/2014/08/05/sailors_of_all_stripes_how_the_breton_shirt_arrived_on_russian_shores_38777.html) Or the jumper top worn by RN, USN, French matelots, etc? We were told the flap on the back (the “tallywacker”) was for tucking under the cap for protection. If you look closely, you’ll see the creases are from the inside out: they’re stowed folded that way in case something spills on them in your locker or duffle bag. ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-name-of-this-style-of-shirt-worn-in-old-westerns/698407/12 "2014-09-15T02:13:48Z")
> [@Amberlei](#): > > Thanks, but unfortunately I don’t know anything about sailor’s shirts. I only know about the plastron shirts because I used to rodeo in high school and a group of us once got into a big argument about just what authentic western wear really consisted of. Never one to admit to being wrong without putting up a fight, I spent at least a couple of weeks doing research on the history of western shirts. You are a true doper, my friend. 🙂