# What is on these men's foreheads? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 1, 2011, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-on-these-mens-foreheads/569785 "2011-02-01T14:31:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-on-these-mens-foreheads/569785/1 "2011-02-01T14:31:43Z")
This article about the protests in Egypt contains [a photo of some men praying, standing in the street.](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/02/world/middleeast/02egypt.html?ref=world) Four of them have large dark marks on their foreheads. I am assuming since they are all so similar that they are not birthmarks. Does this sort of mark have some cultural significance? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-on-these-mens-foreheads/569785/2 "2011-02-01T14:34:10Z")
If you pray a lot and very, I guess, vehemently, you tend to get that mark on your forehead. Among (some) Muslims, it can be a mark of pride. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-on-these-mens-foreheads/569785/3 "2011-02-01T14:44:19Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > If you pray a lot and very, I guess, vehemently, you tend to get that mark on your forehead. Only if, in the act of praying, you press your head against something dirty, like the ground. (Just thought I’d mention this in case anyone got the idea that God magically darkens the foreheads of people who pray to him vehemently… 😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-on-these-mens-foreheads/569785/4 "2011-02-01T14:46:12Z")
No jokes please, I really want to know the real answer. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-on-these-mens-foreheads/569785/5 "2011-02-01T14:51:04Z")
That was a real answer. A lot of people try really hard to get that mark because it’s a mark of pride. My grandparents’ cook/help is Muslim (so are they/we) and he developed that mark from praying. [Wiki even has an article on the phenomenon.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prayer_bump) ---
**Author:** ![TheChileanBlob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thechileanblob/32/435_2.png) [@TheChileanBlob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheChileanBlob)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-on-these-mens-foreheads/569785/6 "2011-02-01T14:52:16Z")
> **[Prayer callus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prayer_bump)** > > A prayer callus, zabiba or zebiba (Arabic: زبيبة zabība, "raisin") is a callus on the forehead present in some devout praying Muslims, mainly in Egypt. Owing to its societal significance it is also known as the "devout sign".\[citation needed\] Among notable Egyptian leader Anwar Sadat's reputation for personal piety was evidenced by a callus on his forehead from repeated prostration in prayer. > Islam requires its adherents to pray five times a day (known as salat), which involves kneeling on a pra... ---
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-on-these-mens-foreheads/569785/7 "2011-02-01T14:53:55Z")
Hi Freudian, my remark about not joking was directed at psychonaut. I have heard of what you are referring to but did not realize it was such a large mark. I visited Egypt once and don’t remember noticing anyone with that mark. Is it very unusual? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-on-these-mens-foreheads/569785/8 "2011-02-01T14:55:47Z")
Ah, gotcha. I don’t know too much about it, and the one prayer bump I have seen in the flesh as it were wasn’t as big as theirs. Not sure why the pictured bumps were so much larger. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-on-these-mens-foreheads/569785/9 "2011-02-01T15:34:26Z")
> [@ratatoskK](#): > > Hi Freudian, my remark about not joking was directed at psychonaut. I wasn’t joking. I was clarifying the previous response. There are so many different ways that people pray that that response didn’t make it obvious why any of them would cause a mark to appear on someone’s forehead. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-on-these-mens-foreheads/569785/10 "2011-02-01T16:28:19Z")
Sorry, I meant the aspect of lowering the head to the floor to touch the ground. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-on-these-mens-foreheads/569785/11 "2011-02-01T16:32:49Z")
It’s not from dirt on the floor. It is essentially a callous that builds up on the forehead of those that pray with their head on the ground/mat/floor etc. ---
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-on-these-mens-foreheads/569785/12 "2011-02-01T16:40:49Z")
But did you see the photo? It looks like a very large, dark birthmark or bruise that covers the entire central portion of the forehead. It’s not just a little bump or a small spot. oops – I see they have changed the photo on the web site. I cannot find the original photo. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-on-these-mens-foreheads/569785/13 "2011-02-01T17:11:07Z")
Yeah, I was just going to say I don’t see the photo you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Fish\_Cheer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fish_cheer/32/17179_2.png) [@Fish\_Cheer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish_Cheer)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-on-these-mens-foreheads/569785/14 "2011-02-01T17:11:51Z")
> [@ratatoskK](#): > > I see they have changed the photo on the web site. I cannot find the original photo. [It’s still there.](http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2011/02/01/world/01egypt4_span.html) ---
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-on-these-mens-foreheads/569785/15 "2011-02-01T17:41:38Z")
Thanks for the new link. Also I was wondering, since they are praying standing up, do you think they might be Coptic Christians? Or do Muslims sometimes pray standing up when they don’t have a rug to kneel upon and they are outside? ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-on-these-mens-foreheads/569785/16 "2011-02-02T16:55:35Z")
> [@ratatoskK](#): > > No jokes please, I really want to know the real answer. I think that on the SDMB, you’ll get both! Best wishes, hh ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-on-these-mens-foreheads/569785/17 "2011-02-02T17:24:09Z")
> [@ratatoskK](#): > > But did you see the photo? It looks like a very large, dark birthmark or bruise that covers the entire central portion of the forehead. It’s not just a little bump or a small spot. > > oops – I see they have changed the photo on the web site. I cannot find the original photo. Yeah, that’s not a prayer bump and they’re not praying in the style that gets you a prayer bump. That’s either a large bruise, port wine stain (unlikely since it’s in multiple people - unless they’re all close relatives) or dirt/stain which may or may not have a religious significance. I don’t know what it _is_, mind, but I will post to agree with you and verify that you’re not crazy for continuing to ask for another explanation. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-on-these-mens-foreheads/569785/18 "2011-02-02T17:35:53Z")
In that photo, there are three men with quite significant markings. My money’s still on the prayer bump explanation, albeit a few extreme cases. However, the dude in the front center’s bump kinda looks like the profile of a sleestack. I think we have a Land of the Lost fan here. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-on-these-mens-foreheads/569785/19 "2011-02-02T18:22:23Z")
Similar as proof of dedication. Practice enough and you get the [Violin Hickey](http://www.violinist.com/discussion/response.cfm?ID=7351). Cartooniverse ---
**Author:** ![Shmendrik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shmendrik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shmendrik)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-on-these-mens-foreheads/569785/20 "2011-02-02T18:24:07Z")
> [@ratatoskK](#): > > Thanks for the new link. Also I was wondering, since they are praying standing up, do you think they might be Coptic Christians? Or do Muslims sometimes pray standing up when they don’t have a rug to kneel upon and they are outside? No. Muslims stand, kneel, and prostrate themselves at different points in the prayer. See this [illustration](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Salat_positions.jpg) from Wikipedia, where the author describes the positions as: > [@](#): > > The Raka of the islamic prayer Salat: a: Lifting my hands; b: my right hand around my left wrist; c: bending in my hips, my hands on my knees; d: standing right, to e: fall down on my knees, forehead and hands to the ground; f: lifting my upper body, sitting on my heels, with hands on knees; g: bowing down again, forehead and hands to the ground; h: upright to a sitting position. > Raka 2: turning my head to the left and right to greet the angles and my fellows in faith All the men in the photograph look like position b from the wiki illustration, with their right hands around their left wrists. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-on-these-mens-foreheads/569785.md?page=2)