# What is, or was, a "cathole"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 11, 2016, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-or-was-a-cathole/762455 "2016-08-11T15:57:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-or-was-a-cathole/762455/1 "2016-08-11T15:57:05Z")
A town near me (in New England) has an “Old Cathole Rd.” I thought it was unique until I drove by another “Cathole Rd.” about a hundred miles away. No one seems to know what a cathole was or might have been in the last 300 years of local history. The only definition I can find is for the little hole hikers dig to poop in. Nwingland is full of such silly-sounding road names - “Butt” being common, as in “Town Butt Rd.” but that refers to a giant barrel from which the town drew water. (There’s also the “New England Butt Company,” which started off making butt hinges.) Some think it might be a corruption of “Catholic” but the only Catholic church in town is right where it’s always been since about 1740. Nowhere near the road. Ideas? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-or-was-a-cathole/762455/2 "2016-08-11T16:16:43Z")
[Cathole](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathole) That’s going to help property values. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-or-was-a-cathole/762455/3 "2016-08-11T16:19:37Z")
Okay, on a more serious note, I’m going to guess it’s a corruption of cattle road. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-or-was-a-cathole/762455/4 "2016-08-11T16:22:08Z")
There’s a cave in Wales called [Cathole Cave](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathole_Cave) which, being a cave, is literally a hole. There is also a [Cathole Mountain](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathole_Mountain) in Connecticut (and nearby Cathole Pass) though I’m not sure if it’s named after or otherwise related to the Welsh cave. Both are alternatively called “Cat Hole” so neither is connected to Catholicism. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-or-was-a-cathole/762455/5 "2016-08-11T16:43:42Z")
The Historical Dictionary of American Slang’s first citation of “cathole” in the “latrine” sense is from 1978, so it’s unlikely to be source of a name that’s 300 years old. It says it was originally a military term. –Mark ---
**Author:** ![JackaRoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@JackaRoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JackaRoe)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-or-was-a-cathole/762455/6 "2016-08-11T17:31:07Z")
It is also a naval term for a hole that a hawser is passed through. Is it possible that the town was involved in naval manufacturing? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawsehole](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawsehole) ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-or-was-a-cathole/762455/7 "2016-08-11T17:50:13Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > [Cathole](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathole) > > That’s going to help property values. I cannot believe I clicked on a link which was clearly labeled “cathole”. It’s not like my pet doesn’t show me a real live cat hole nine times a day. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-or-was-a-cathole/762455/8 "2016-08-11T18:04:19Z")
> [@markn\_1](#): > > The Historical Dictionary of American Slang’s first citation of “cathole” in the “latrine” sense is from 1978, so it’s unlikely to be source of a name that’s 300 years old. It says it was originally a military term. > > –Mark We called holes for pooping in (when in the woods) “catholes” when I was in the Boy Scouts late 60s-early 70s. That dictionary is suspect! ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-or-was-a-cathole/762455/9 "2016-08-11T18:05:10Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > [Cathole](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathole) > > That’s going to help property values. I’d rather live on Old Cathole Rd. than New Cathole Rd. ---
**Author:** ![Ignotus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ecc23a/32.png) [@Ignotus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ignotus)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-or-was-a-cathole/762455/10 "2016-08-11T18:05:27Z")
I don’t know about the origin of the English term; but in Sweden _katthål_ = lit. “cat hole” refers to the gats made in the bottoms of buildings (and sometimes in the doors of barns) primarily to provide ventilation, but which also make a very convenient way for cats to sneak in and out on their way to find prey or seek shelter. [https://www.google.se/search?q=katthål+bilder&espv=2&biw=1366&bih=667&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj6xcer97nOAhWE1iwKHWlKCT4QsAQIGg#imgrc=i2pxwlajraEAqM%3A](https://www.google.se/search?q=katth%C3%A5l+bilder&espv=2&biw=1366&bih=667&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj6xcer97nOAhWE1iwKHWlKCT4QsAQIGg#imgrc=i2pxwlajraEAqM%3A) ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-or-was-a-cathole/762455/11 "2016-08-11T18:13:05Z")
OED says 1) Cat den or hole; 2) a hole large enough for a cat to pass thru; 3) the nautical term listed above. It also lists #1 marked with a dagger (mine is the 1922 edition), but I don’t know how old the road name is. But I’d guess either #1 or #2 is the answer. Also, it’s pronounced with two syllables “cat-hole,” not three as in “kuh-THO-lee.” ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-or-was-a-cathole/762455/12 "2016-08-11T18:22:31Z")
In any case, the meaning “little hole to poop in” seems to be of much later vintage than ca. 1750. It could refer to a cat’s den - mountain lions did range here in colonial times. As for the pronunciating, it is almost certainly “cat-hole,” but there’s a certain local snark in pronuncing it “ca-thol-ee.” If it doesn’t mean a cat den, the mystery continues. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-or-was-a-cathole/762455/13 "2016-08-11T18:39:07Z")
It could be a cat den or a misspelling of something else but it’s more fun to think that it’s the old shithole road. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-or-was-a-cathole/762455/14 "2016-08-11T18:54:13Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > We called holes for pooping in (when in the woods) “catholes” when I was in the Boy Scouts late 60s-early 70s. That dictionary is suspect! Well the dictionary obviously can only report what’s been written and published. That can lag oral usage by many years. Nevertheless, that’s interesting that you remember oral usage from that far back. –Mark ---
**Author:** ![zut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zut/32/2875_2.png) [@zut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zut)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-or-was-a-cathole/762455/15 "2016-08-11T19:54:30Z")
> [@markn\_1](#): > > Well the dictionary obviously can only report what’s been written and published. That can lag oral usage by many years. Nevertheless, that’s interesting that you remember oral usage from that far back. > > –Mark From [_Military Sanitation,_ July 1945 (War Department Field Manual)](https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/ref/FM/PDFs/FM21-10.PDF), page 46: > [@](#): > > SECTION II. HUMAN. WASTES > 58. DISPOSAL. Of all types of waste, human waste is the most frequent carrier of intestinal disease germs… > a. On the march, men fall out during brief halts, dig a hole (cat hole) about 1 foot deep, and then cover the feces completely with earth. So, earlier than the late 60s 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-or-was-a-cathole/762455/16 "2016-08-11T20:50:14Z")
Well I’m quite surprised. HDoAS is considered to be quite authoritative (even if it was never completed). –Mark ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-or-was-a-cathole/762455/17 "2016-08-11T20:56:33Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > [Cathole](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathole) > > That’s going to help property values. Goodness! How those gardens growed All along Old Cathole Road. One wonders if they realized With what the roots were fertilized. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-or-was-a-cathole/762455/18 "2016-08-11T21:12:46Z")
While googling cattle road, I found the [best roadsign ever](http://images.roadtrafficsigns.com/img/lg/K/caution-falling-cows-road-sign-k-9916.gif). ---
**Author:** ![Ignotus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ecc23a/32.png) [@Ignotus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ignotus)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-or-was-a-cathole/762455/19 "2016-08-11T21:44:53Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > While googling cattle road, I found the [best roadsign ever](http://images.roadtrafficsigns.com/img/lg/K/caution-falling-cows-road-sign-k-9916.gif). Yeah, that’s hard to beat. Even “\*Danger! Nuclear Hazard! \*” would make less of an impact on me! ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2016, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-or-was-a-cathole/762455/20 "2016-08-11T21:45:57Z")
> [@Ignotus](#): > > I don’t know about the origin of the English term; but in Sweden _katthål_ = lit. “cat hole” refers to the gats made in the bottoms of buildings (and sometimes in the doors of barns) primarily to provide ventilation, but which also make a very convenient way for cats to sneak in and out on their way to find prey or seek shelter. > [katthål bilder - Google Search](https://www.google.se/search?q=katth%C3%A5l+bilder&espv=2&biw=1366&bih=667&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj6xcer97nOAhWE1iwKHWlKCT4QsAQIGg#imgrc=i2pxwlajraEAqM%3A) 😕 “gats”? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-or-was-a-cathole/762455.md?page=2)