# What is "Original Sin"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 1, 2013, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-original-sin/670109 "2013-10-01T17:10:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-original-sin/670109/1 "2013-10-01T17:10:41Z")
Per Wiki > [@](#): > > According to a Christian theological doctrine, original sin, also called ancestral sin, is humanity’s state of sin resulting from the fall of man, stemming from Adam’s rebellion in Eden. but if the story of Adam and Eve is only a parable(as I’ve been told by many), then what _is_ the Original Sin? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-original-sin/670109/2 "2013-10-01T17:20:13Z")
Humanity’s tendency toward detrimental behaviors. My understanding is that they mostly argue backwards from effect to cause. People will kill other people, steal from them, hurt them, think only of themselves and act without regard for other people, animals and things. If humans were innately sinless, they argue, these things wouldn’t happen. They do, ergo humans aren’t innately sinless. Without the creation story, it becomes harder to argue how a perfect god could create imperfect people, but this is theology, so thinking too hard about it isn’t recommended. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-original-sin/670109/3 "2013-10-01T17:27:10Z")
Being really creative about it. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-original-sin/670109/4 "2013-10-01T17:29:06Z")
‘learning’ apparently - The offense committed was - a) taking advice from a different ‘voice’ b) learning the difference between good and evil - (b) I guess being the bigger problem - before that, you could do what you want in ignorance and ‘sin’ did not exist. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-original-sin/670109/5 "2013-10-01T17:29:43Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Humanity’s tendency toward detrimental behaviors. > > My understanding is that they mostly argue backwards from effect to cause. People will kill other people, steal from them, hurt them, think only of themselves and act without regard for other people, animals and things. If humans were innately sinless, they argue, these things wouldn’t happen. They do, ergo humans aren’t innately sinless. Without the creation story, it becomes harder to argue how a perfect god could create imperfect people, but this is theology, so thinking too hard about it isn’t recommended. But that’s just a list of sins. Which one of those(if any) is the _original_ sin? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-original-sin/670109/6 "2013-10-01T17:32:13Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Per Wiki but if the story of Adam and Eve is only a parable(as I’ve been told by many), then what _is_ the Original Sin? Not “the” Original Sin: original sin is a condition, not an event. A bit of googling turned up what looks like a pretty good explanation of original sin on, of all places, the BBC website: [BBC - Religions - Christianity: Original sin](http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/beliefs/originalsin_1.shtml) Also an [article in the Catholic encyclopedia](http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11312a.htm), and an [article from a recent issue of _Christianity Today_](http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2013/april/mystery-of-original-sin.html). I haven’t yet had a chance to read any of these articles in detail, but once I have, I might come back and comment on them further. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-original-sin/670109/7 "2013-10-01T17:33:02Z")
> [@simster](#): > > ‘learning’ apparently - > > The offense committed was - > > a) taking advice from a different ‘voice’ > b) learning the difference between good and evil - > > (b) I guess being the bigger problem - before that, you could do what you want in ignorance and ‘sin’ did not exist. But, once again, that is now regarded as a parable. How can original sin be considered to be real by some religionists if it’s origin stems from a parable? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-original-sin/670109/8 "2013-10-01T17:35:21Z")
Original sin is not an act that everyone just happens to have done at some point. It is that quality of being human that allows us to even think of ‘sinning’. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-original-sin/670109/9 "2013-10-01T17:36:05Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > But, once again, that is now regarded as a parable. How can original sin be considered to be real by some religionists if it’s origin stems from a parable? because they have a hard time letting go ? They’ve accepted the idea that the only reason we ‘sin’ is because imperfection came to be thanks to the choices made early on - if the parable has any meaning, its that you’re only supposed to listen to god - so (a) takes care of that - listening to a different voice would be the original sin. ---
**Author:** ![Farin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e79b87/32.png) [@Farin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farin)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-original-sin/670109/10 "2013-10-01T17:38:17Z")
Sinfulness is innate. That’s what original sin refers to. It’s not “this act of sin made us all sinners” it’s “people are born sinners and must be redeemed.” It’s a tenet of the Roman Catholics, but a lot of protestant flavors of Christianity don’t follow the idea. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-original-sin/670109/11 "2013-10-01T17:42:41Z")
> [@Farin](#): > > Sinfulness is innate. That’s what original sin refers to. It’s not “this act of sin made us all sinners” it’s “people are born sinners and must be redeemed.” > > It’s a tenet of the Roman Catholics, but a lot of protestant flavors of Christianity don’t follow the idea. Sin had to enter the world - unless they are saying that God ‘created’ us sinful. or is that free will? and ‘free will’ is the orignial sin? ---
**Author:** ![Farin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e79b87/32.png) [@Farin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farin)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-original-sin/670109/12 "2013-10-01T17:43:21Z")
> [@simster](#): > > because they have a hard time letting go ? > > They’ve accepted the idea that the only reason we ‘sin’ is because imperfection came to be thanks to the choices made early on - if the parable has any meaning, its that you’re only supposed to listen to god - so (a) takes care of that - listening to a different voice would be the original sin. That’s not true. Original Sin doesn’t have anything to do with Adam and Eve. It wasn’t even implemented until the 1500s by the RCC with the arguments made by St Augustine. His argument was as I laid down in my last post: Everyone is born innately sinful and must be redeemed through the RCC as an institution (which leads to Jesus and more religious stuff). ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-original-sin/670109/13 "2013-10-01T17:44:47Z")
> [@Farin](#): > > That’s not true. Original Sin doesn’t have anything to do with Adam and Eve. It wasn’t even implemented until the 1500s by the RCC with the arguments made by St Augustine. His argument was as I laid down in my last post: > > Everyone is born innately sinful and must be redeemed through the RCC as an institution (which leads to Jesus and more religious stuff). Well, that his (the RCC) use of it as the tool - but that doesn’t answer what it originally was. What part of us is ‘innately sinful’ - what makes that ‘true’ ? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-original-sin/670109/14 "2013-10-01T17:45:27Z")
> [@Farin](#): > > Everyone is born innately sinful and must be redeemed through the RCC as an institution (which leads to Jesus and more religious stuff). If it’s the fault of the designer, who gets to redeem him? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-original-sin/670109/15 "2013-10-01T17:46:38Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > How can original sin be considered to be real by some religionists if it’s origin stems from a parable? **What** it is, **whether** it is, and **why** it is are separate questions. ---
**Author:** ![Farin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e79b87/32.png) [@Farin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farin)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-original-sin/670109/16 "2013-10-01T17:46:59Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Sin had to enter the world - unless they are saying that God ‘created’ us sinful. > > or is that free will? and ‘free will’ is the orignial sin? You seem to be trying to establish an Act that is the sin, much as we modernly think of sin. You punch someone. You break a window. The idea of “original sin” was simply the RCC’s position that you are born sinful and without them you aren’t going to a Celebrex commercial in your afterlife. As for God making us “sinful” by nature, I don’t have an explanation for how the RCC koshered this with their views (okay, I do, but it’s just that they ignored the inconsistency), just that they decided this was their view. ---
**Author:** ![Farin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e79b87/32.png) [@Farin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farin)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-original-sin/670109/17 "2013-10-01T17:48:02Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If it’s the fault of the designer, who gets to redeem him? Super God? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-original-sin/670109/18 "2013-10-01T17:51:52Z")
> [@Farin](#): > > You seem to be trying to establish an Act that is the sin, much as we modernly think of sin. You punch someone. You break a window. The idea of “original sin” was simply the RCC’s position that you are born sinful and without them you aren’t going to a Celebrex commercial in your afterlife. > > As for God making us “sinful” by nature, I don’t have an explanation for how the RCC koshered this with their views (okay, I do, but it’s just that they ignored the inconsistency), just that they decided this was their view. well - not so much an ‘act’ but a ‘why’ - If we are ‘innately sinful’ - why is that ? what part of us makes us “innately sinful” - ‘free will’ seems to fit - since that can lead to many acts - but in and of itself is “not sin” - but it also seems that if the parabale holds any wieght, its the knowledge of what ‘sin’ is that makes us ‘innately sinful’. IOW - nudity/sex is only a sin if you recognize it as such. Before the ‘apple’ - there was no such sin. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-original-sin/670109/19 "2013-10-01T17:54:23Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If it’s the fault of the designer, who gets to redeem him? Really. You expect ancient religious philosophy to make sense? At this point in my arguments with Dad, it’s time for him to say, “Because I said so.” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-original-sin/670109/20 "2013-10-01T17:57:44Z")
So, what is a simple definition of “original sin” that doesn’t involve the parable of Adam and Eve? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-original-sin/670109.md?page=2)