# What is "Original Sin"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 1, 2013, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-original-sin/670109 "2013-10-01T17:10:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-original-sin/670109/161 "2013-10-12T14:46:47Z")
> [@jsutter](#): > > I may have misinterpreted Alan Smithee > > Perhaps God in His Wisdom kind of liked the Serpent’s idea of screwing with folk’s heads and rehabilitated him as Satan. Frankly, I don’t care. “There is no sin. The Son of God is free!” Frankly, if you claim to be analyzing the Bible, adding in parts unwritten to suit your personal beliefs casts doubt on any further analysis on your part when it comes to that topic. If you really don’t care, why post in this thread? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-original-sin/670109/162 "2013-10-12T14:51:33Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Frankly, if you claim to be analyzing the Bible, adding in parts unwritten to suit your personal beliefs casts doubt on any further analysis on your part when it comes to that topic. If you really don’t care, why post in this thread? [Loooong history](http://www.amazon.com/Misquoting-Jesus-Story-Behind-Changed/dp/0060859512) of that, my friend. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-original-sin/670109/163 "2013-10-12T14:53:41Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > [Loooong history](http://www.amazon.com/Misquoting-Jesus-Story-Behind-Changed/dp/0060859512) of that, my friend. Don’t I know it. ---
**Author:** ![jsutter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8e8cbc/32.png) [@jsutter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsutter)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-original-sin/670109/164 "2013-10-12T15:32:20Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Frankly, if you claim to be analyzing the Bible, adding in parts unwritten to suit your personal beliefs casts doubt on any further analysis on your part when it comes to that topic. If you really don’t care, why post in this thread? Well excuse me. I thought we were discussing Original Sin. And as far “analyzing the Bible”, imo, it is poor and internally inconsistent fiction that some folk’s here seem to think is the Word of God. Why post in this (or any other thread)? Probably for same reasons I imagine you do. Time on my hands and my need to serve Truth. Aloha ---
**Author:** ![jsutter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8e8cbc/32.png) [@jsutter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsutter)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-original-sin/670109/165 "2013-10-12T16:31:51Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > [Loooong history](http://www.amazon.com/Misquoting-Jesus-Story-Behind-Changed/dp/0060859512) of that, my friend. I exchanged emails with Dr. Ehrman a while back and sent him this. > [@](#): > > In Luke .6, 37 and Mark .9, 40 Jesus is reported to have held that ‘we’ includes ‘those not against us’ while Luke .11, 23 and Mark .12, 30 would have it that ‘we’ excludes ‘those not with us’. > > And if Luke .6 37 and Matt .6, 15 (But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.) can be believed, who could ask for more? Aloha ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-original-sin/670109/166 "2013-10-12T16:37:03Z")
> [@jsutter](#): > > I exchanged emails with Dr. Ehrman a while back and sent him this. You said “exchanged”. How did Dr. Ehrman respond? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-original-sin/670109/167 "2013-10-12T16:44:51Z")
IIRC, that’s when I get my second Chocolate Chip Cookie Dough Milkshake at Baskin-Robbins. Bless me Father… ---
**Author:** ![jsutter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8e8cbc/32.png) [@jsutter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsutter)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-original-sin/670109/168 "2013-10-12T16:48:22Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You said “exchanged”. How did Dr. Ehrman respond? > [@](#): > > Yeah, that’s a good one. As it turns out, I mention it in my most recent book Jesus Interrupted. Hard to see how both things can be true at once… > > – BDE Aloha ---
**Author:** ![Conservian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@Conservian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Conservian)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-original-sin/670109/169 "2013-10-12T17:00:17Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > [Here is all of Luke, chapter 10](http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Luke-Chapter-10/). It seems as if Jesus wasn’t saying that he personally saw Satan fall from Heaven before Adam and Eve even occurred(which would certainly contradict parts of Job, btw), but that he considers Satan to be powerful, like lightning from Heaven. :smack: Please tell me you’re not serious here. Luke 10: 17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. 18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-original-sin/670109/170 "2013-10-12T17:13:26Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > :smack: Please tell me you’re not serious here. > Luke 10: > 17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. > > 18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. I’m serious here. It makes more sense when trying to equate the “Satan” of the Old Testament with the “Satan” of the New Testament. ---
**Author:** ![jsutter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8e8cbc/32.png) [@jsutter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsutter)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-original-sin/670109/171 "2013-10-12T17:18:42Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I’m serious here. It makes more sense when trying to equate the “Satan” of the Old Testament with the “Satan” of the New Testament. Right. About as much sense as trying to reconcile the Old and New. Aloha ---
**Author:** ![Conservian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@Conservian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Conservian)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-original-sin/670109/172 "2013-10-12T17:21:45Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I’m serious here. It makes more sense when trying to equate the “Satan” of the Old Testament with the “Satan” of the New Testament. OK, I got it now: Refuse to acknowledge and accept what is actually written in Scripture, and conjure up some idea that seems more plausible to you - there’s an Old Testament Satan, and a New Testament Satan.:smack: ---
**Author:** ![jsutter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8e8cbc/32.png) [@jsutter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsutter)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-original-sin/670109/173 "2013-10-12T17:24:07Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Frankly, if you claim to be analyzing the Bible, adding in parts unwritten to suit your personal beliefs casts doubt on any further analysis on your part when it comes to that topic. If you really don’t care, why post in this thread? I assume from this that you do “care”.What exactly do you care about on this thread? Aloha ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-original-sin/670109/174 "2013-10-12T18:46:29Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > OK, I got it now: > Refuse to acknowledge and accept what is actually written in Scripture, and conjure up some idea that seems more plausible to you - there’s an Old Testament Satan, and a New Testament Satan.:smack: Then tell me how you reconcile the Satan of the Old Testament with the Satan of the New Testament. ---
**Author:** ![jsutter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8e8cbc/32.png) [@jsutter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsutter)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-original-sin/670109/175 "2013-10-12T19:10:29Z")
> [@jsutter](#): > > I assume from this that you do “care”.What exactly do you care about on this thread? > > Aloha taps toes, twiddles thumbs, waits patiently for your answer ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-original-sin/670109/176 "2013-10-12T19:18:56Z")
> [@jsutter](#): > > taps toes, twiddles thumbs, waits patiently for your answer Twiddle away-I’ve also got real life to deal with. What I care about is a an answer to the question I posed in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![jsutter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8e8cbc/32.png) [@jsutter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsutter)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-original-sin/670109/177 "2013-10-12T19:46:41Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Per Wiki but if the story of Adam and Eve is only a parable(as I’ve been told by many), then what _is_ the Original Sin? > [@](#): > > I’m sorry, but the story of Adam and Eve is a logical mess from beginning to end… I think we agree it’s parable. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Twiddle away-I’ve also got real life to deal with. What I care about is a an answer to the question I posed in the OP. So would it be fair for me to parse the OP as: “Given that Adam and Eve are metaphors, what is ‘original sin’?”?. If so, it’s easy. It’s all in your mind. Does that help? Aloha ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-original-sin/670109/178 "2013-10-12T22:39:52Z")
Original: 1. belonging or pertaining to the origin or beginning of something, or to a thing at its beginning: \*The book still has its original binding. \* 2. a primary form or type from which varieties are derived. At first I thought that the OP was asking, given definition 1, how original sin could exist if Genesis consisted of parables. So a few posters pointed at definition #7. You can think “Fundamental sin” or “Intrinsic sin” if it helps, though such terms are less catchy. I’m not sure what the OP is unclear about at this juncture. I’m seeing a discussion of largely extraneous claims, but it’s possible this is a misperception. ---
**Author:** ![Conservian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@Conservian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Conservian)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-original-sin/670109/179 "2013-10-12T23:04:29Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Then tell me how you reconcile the Satan of the Old Testament with the Satan of the New Testament. Nothing to reconcile other than the fact that he is mentioned by name in both the Old and the New Testament. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2013, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-original-sin/670109/180 "2013-10-12T23:16:31Z")
Maybe somebody more knowledgeable can pitch in, but I thought that Satan went by a number of names in the original Hebrew/Greek. For example in Lot, he is referred to as The Satan, indicating that it was a position and not a person that was being referenced. I interpret that character as a special prosecutor. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-original-sin/670109.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-original-sin/670109.md?page=10)