Like I said, I do scroll past those threads, and subsequently that’s most of The Pit & GD out of commission from a participation point of view.
I’m not American- as I’m getting sick of explaining- and so I have no interest in your politics at all. I have no idea who 90% of the people being discussed in most of the political threads are, without resorting to Wikipedia. So no, it has nothing to do with not liking what I allegedly see in threads I’m not reading anyway.
Yup.
Look back to the early days of the pit. It was always the fastest moving forum (no stats, just memories confirmed by one mod in an off-board conversation) and it rarely had politics. Post-9/11 had a brief spate of them, but they died off. It wasn’t until much later than the Pit became GD-lite.
I think everyone agrees (and admins here have confirmed it) that for whatever weird psychological quirk, people tend to read and respond mostly to what’s on the first page. Since all it takes is a bunch of mindless “U”/“No, U” responses in those “Whatever the unspeakable outrage of the micro-second is” threads to bump everything off the
Remember “The Telemarketer Speaks And I Respond” thread? That was an exceptional thread, but it was the norm for the Pit. Rants were in that category-funny, scathing, about stuff that really pissed off an individual.
There’s no room for that now with the Reeder-with-more-words threads.
Because there are too many–they’re pushing everything else off. It’s like saying “If you don’t like kudzu, don’t look at it. Look at the rest of your garden.” when there’s nothing but kudzu there because it’s crowded out everything else.
Or, in our case, morning glories. Shit, they tried to choke out everything we were growing, and we had to keep them conscientiously pulled back. So I know what you mean.
Of course, you have to wonder where these morning glories (or kudzu) came from. It’s hard to trace the roots because they plant roots as they spread. These political posts — where did they all come from, and why now? Why so suddenly and prolifically?
I think the answer might lie with the current state of American politics. I can sympathise with people like Martini, who have no interest in it. And in your case, Fen, I don’t think it’s so much a lack of interest as it is the sheer overwhelming numbers of them. And it is a legitimate question: why so many?
Part of the answer, I think, is that we have the most activist administration since Roosevelt. So much is happening so fast. There isn’t a day that has gone by since Obama took office that he hasn’t either held a press conference or a town hall meeting or photo op, or announced an appointment or a new program, not just about piddly shit, but about very important things like the economy, the war, and health care. Just to name a couple.
Of course, I think it’s compounded by the fact that Republican opposition to him is so unbelievably strong. And much of it is based on nothing more than political expediency. They want him to fail so they can take back the offices they once held. In the process, they are misleading the people by lying or misrepresenting either what the president has proposed, or else how Congress is working with him.
The reason this angers people so much is because, for once, these really are issues that affect them personally. I’ve even pitted the flaw in the Obama middle-class tax-cut plan that might cause people to owe hundreds of dollars of taxes that they weren’t aware they owe come next year when they fill out their tax forms. This had such an effect on my wife and me, that we had to consult with our accountant, change our W4 forms at work, and put away enough money to cover the penalty just in case. Why isn’t that worth pitting?
Now, granted, not every pitting is quite so personal. “Alaska hates Sarah Palin” affects few of us in and of itself, but as that discussion developed, people turned it into personal matters. Her meddling and idiocy, combined with the outside chance that she actually could take the presidency away from Obama in 2012, is so utterly frightening that it is understandable why people would react to her on a visceral and personal level.
But even setting all that aside, it is obvious that there is a lot of interest on the board, from both the post counts and the views. In the meantime, there is nothing to stop people from opening a thread about anything they want. (And I’ve already pointed out some very successful non-political threads.) So, your point kind of gets lost in this fact: if Martini couldn’t give a damn about American politics (even though it affects him, just as it affects everyone in the world), what’s stopping him from opening a pit thread of his own? He says no one will be interested (and by the way, the thread he’s thinking about is political in nature), but if it’s a good rant, people will pop in to read and post pretty much no matter what it’s about.
And the same goes for you, frankly. Nothing is stopping you from opening a thread about telemarketers or any other topic of interest to you. It’s not that I think you are disingenuous, but if you’re not willing to put your posting where your mouth is, so to speak, then why should anyone take you seriously? In other words, it’s as though you and Martini want other people to do your work for you. And yet, nobody is there. If they were, they’d be opening threads. Do you see how there’s a bit of a disconnect there?
No.
Because at the moment, it’s not worth it.
It takes time and energy to compose a decent pit thread. And that thread will be off the front page in hours because it takes no time to respond to a political thread with “No, U!” and all it takes is one poster bopping into each of the political threads and saying “Dummy-crats/Repugnicans SUK” to drop a non-political thread off the front page.
Frank posted a decent rant last night that’s dropped off the front page already. After something like 8 hours.
Condense the political threads to one general “Everyone’s side by mine SUCKS and here’s what they’re doing in August” thread and give other threads room to grow.
Again, without front-page exposure, threads won’t thrive. And watching the same few dozen or so people monopolize the front page of The Pit for months on end with an endless litany of the outrage-of-the-minute*, it’s pointless to even try.
*remember when there were like 5 threads outraged about Sarah Palin’s daughter’s fiancee’s haircut? Neither does anyone else.
Absolutely. And unlike some of the people on the boards, I don’t spend all day looking for things to be outraged about so I can rush to my computer and Pit them. But sometimes something will happen that I think “I’d like to vent about that and perhaps some other people will agree with me”, but when I eventually get around to composing a post, I see that the Pit is full of US Political stuff that’s going on for pages, and I think “You know what? I think I’ll go for a walk or read a book instead.”
This is an excellent idea and one I wholeheartedly agree with. Frankly, I’m not seeing any concession from the pundits here- they want to monopolise two forums on the messageboard and any suggestion that maybe they’d like to keep it in one place is shouted down with “If you don’t like it, don’t read them!”, which reminds me of that Far Side Cartoon entitled “Hell’s Video Library” in which every movie is Ishtar.
Just had sort of a wild idea that I thought I’d throw out regarding the political threads. Since there won’t be a political forum and political threads will still be in GD, that means that the Pit political threads can’t be moved into a political forum. And since the political threads are already started here, they likely won’t be moved back to GD.
So how about a rule that political threads can’t be started in the Pit? They can be moved to the Pit by the mods if they get too heated for GD, but they have to start in GD first.
Political threads in the Pit seem to be a subset of RO with a link to a political news article instead of a criminal one.
Just a thought.
Very much like I said in the ATMB thread, where statistics are being tabulated (often depending on point of view), I’m satisfied if you just make the calls based on your gut feeling. But clearly, politics does not comprise 75% of Pit posts, and Frank’s rant is back on page 1. At some point, someone must decide what stays and what gets moved and what gets closed. There is no reason that I or Fenris or anyone else should decide that over you. You’re the mod. You’ve demonstrated an even temperament and a willingness to listen to the posters. If we can’t trust you, then we can’t trust anyone. Maybe it’s time for you to set some guidelines (not necessarily rules) and then let us post. Use your guidelines along with your personal judgment to make the decisions. That would suit me. Whether it would suit others, maybe they’ll chime in.
As of about 2:50.
I deleted moved threads 'cause…they’re moved. And I went up to 35 this time to make sure I got the batch with Frank’s thread.
Nut With Gun at Town Hall
political
Glad to see the Republicans are still running Congress
political
Stale Leftovers: The August Mini-Rants Thread
Who’s stupidest – Bush haters or Obama worshipers?
political
Mamas, don’t follow your babies into the men’s room
Prohibition, Prospective Profit Prompt Pothead to Post.
political
Hey, druggies! Screw you.
(maybe)
I’m tired of Socialized Fire Fighting!
political
Equal time: Who’s stupider - Obama haters or Bush (fils) supporters?
political
Westboro Baptist at it again
(maybe)
I am tired of all these dumbass bitches.
Getting into Web-based database geek jobs: this process sucks!
begbert2 cannot debate like an adult
“Work” related: just really really need to rant
RO: Converting a Hindu to Christianity
Anything else you motherfuckers need?
political
Oh! What a Lovely [Afghanistan] War
political
Sea Shepherds; Innefectual self-important dipshits
political
Fear of the Socialism Bogeyman is a Strawman
political
Woman fined $1.9 million for illegal song downloads
political
Huh. Whole Foods right wing. Who knew?
political
I quit my job and I end up in the cuckoo’s nest!
Shouldn’t we just murder the “death-panel” idiots?
political
Eyeball glass, Cellulits, Shingles, MRSA, Pulmonary Embolisim with a cherry on top.
Death Panelist threatens the lives of Michelle, Malia and Sasha
political
The numbnut who had the freakout at the Arlen Specter townhall meeting
political
THEY are the fascists, the traitors and the anti-ameircan liars
political
I pit online shopping from outside the US (long, sweary, possibly incoherent)
Disrupting Town Hall Meetings
political
Limbaugh: “Hitler, Lenin, Stalin were all men of the left”
political
31)Palin says Obama would kill her baby
political
I pit whatever technology shoves my home city in my face.
Shreveport Officer Wiley Willis reinstated
political
Left Bank Books
MSNBC: Socialist is the new ‘n’ word
political
So–21 out of 35 at the moment, 23 if you’re less generous about it. And it changes from minute to minute, but it’s always more than half.
I disagree with several of your picks on political content, but the point is, so what if half are politics? Why is half too much?
That. Plus, a discussion about pot is political only tangentially, since it involves legislation to resolve. So, but still it’s like you say. So what. People are posting what they want to post. And if those posts weren’t there, there would just be zombie threads on page one. People are posting some good rants. I think what Fenris et al would like is for more people to post good rants about something besides politics. But Fen, you’re sort of approaching trying to make it into some kind of rule or something. And if that happens, then Pit posting will drop off considerably. I mean, it’s not like a hundred people are just waiting on their chance to post. They’re just not posting right now. And I don’t buy into the “it’s because they think they won’t get responses” argument. There are always lots of responses to good Pit rants. You would respond, for one. (After all, having the OPs post is no good if you’re not going to respond.) I’ll probably respond. And you know that elucidator and Bryan Ekers will be there. And EddyTeddyFreddy. And who knows. Maybe even lekatt or Giraffe.
ETA: I show 50 threads to a page, I think. Maybe Fen just needs to adjust his CP setting.
Because there’s too much political stuff on the boards as it is and we don’t need over 50% of two separate forums devoted to politics?
This is really, really simple: Since so many people like politics, then putting all the political threads into a “Politics” forum should be popular, right? All the pundits can argue with each other to their hearts content, people that want a break or don’t care about it don’t have to scroll through pages of threads to find something to discuss. Everyone wins.
The problem is that the politcal nature of GD and the Pit has been going on for so long now I think most people on the boards regarding them as “Argue over what bloggers say about politicians” and “Say Angry, Mean Things About Politicians (and other posters, time permitting)”. It’s going to take some work to change that, but, like Fenris, I honestly believe that taking politics out of the Pit will allow other threads to flourish.
I really can’t see the Pit becoming an abandoned Ghost Forum just because there’s no more politics in there. And, as I’ve said before, if we can manage special forums for Ed Zotti’s Book and all things Chicago, we can manage a politics forum. And I bet the politics forum would be more popular than the Barn House and Chicago forums combined, too.
Even giving you the dubious statistic of 50% — a list that I compiled and posted in ATMB showed less than that in the Pit — wouldn’t you have to have two forums? One for debate and one for ranting? We obviously can’t rant in debate threads, and since politics directly affects the vast majority of us, it is only natural that there will be the need to rant. As evidence, I submit the posts that you see. They didn’t appear there by magic, you know. People felt the need to either debate in GD or rant in the Pit. So they did.
Nope. One forum, compromise between Pit rules and GD, and all political stuff stays in there. I’ll even volunteer to Mod it. 
I don’t go around starting lots of gun threads on the boards here because there are other forums I can go to for that, where the topic won’t be sidetracked by “Guns are bad!” or “Guns are only for killing people!” or other ignorance, and honestly, I think a little restraint from the Pundits in regard to the Insignificant Political Outrage Du Jour is called for as well.
I know you say “Politics affects us all”, but really, in Western Democracies, it doesn’t. It really doesn’t matter who’s Prime Minister/President/Premier/Whatever. As long as the power is on, the water is running, and there’s food on the table, my experience of politics has been “Meet the new boss, same as the old boss” WRT to politicians.
With respect Liberal, your username does rather suggest a bias towards being interested in (and possibly active with?) politics. I know it’s hard to conceive that other people might not be passionate about the same things as you (generic you), but here’s a question:
Why do all the political pundits here care so much about it? What difference can you possibly hope to make?
Since the answer to the last question is likely to be “None”, then I’d suggest that all Political threads in The Pit be classified as Recreational Outrage. And since the current consensus appears to be away from “Recreational Outrage” in the Pit, that would be a pretty compelling argument towards putting all the Political stuff in a single forum, wouldn’t it?
I know that I can make no difference as an individual on a national level. However, I was visited today by the local engineer who maintains state roads in this county. As a result of a plea by me, and his seeing the problem first-hand, the county is going to repaint the yellow lines on the road the deadends in front of our house. (The guy already painted temporary white dashes for the road crew to paint over.) The result will be the elimination of narrow turns by trucks that leave tire divets at the edge of our yard (which belongs to the state anyway.)
I have also sicced both state and local agencies on WalMart’s ass for selling spoiled meat. The asshole manager wouldn’t give me his last name when I had called to complain. So I read him the riot act and told him that he’d remember MY last name when his meat department was swarming with people wearing hazmat suits. The jackass. I’m going all the way to the FDA on this one.
One person sometimes can make a difference.
Oh man, dude, we’ve now agreed twice in one week. A sure sign of the Apocalypse.
Indeed, one person can make a difference. I served on the County Civil Grand Jury and I started several rather “fruitful” investigations into waste, fraud & mismanagement in local gov’t.
I have also served on several local advisory Commissions and whatnot. One of my suggestions changed how they would do parking at the new City Hall, making it much more public-freindly.
But one person can only make a difference if you try.
You know what would happen if you called your local council here in Australia to complain about tyre divots in your berm? You’d be politely told to fuck off and stop wasting everyone’s time. Now, it’s good that where you are they’ve obviously got lots of spare time and money to fix that sort of thing, but really, it’s hardly a major political issue, is it? I don’t expect there will be Questions In Parliament about the tyre divots in people’s lawns.
That doesn’t mean you’re not entitled to ask your local council to do something about it, but really, the issue doesn’t affect anybody except for maybe three houses at the end of your street.
That’s slightly different, being a Health & Safety Issue, but still not really what we’re talking about.
But generally they can’t, at least in regards to anything political. That’s my point. You can ring your local council and get them to fix potholes, or dob in a dodgy business that’s selling meat that’s gone off, and reasonably expect something to be done about it. But if you go to see your local Member For Parliament about an issue, you can reasonably expect to be politely listened to then disregarded as soon as you leave the office, unless you’re agreeing with the MP- at least in my experience, anyway.
And as DrDeth notes, that “one person” who does manage to make a difference is almost never just a random member of the public.
Posting kitty pics in the Pit should be a bannable offense. And I’m (almost) not kidding, either. There’s already MPSIMS for that. As I understand it, the Pit was created so that Pit-like posts don’t disrupt the other fora. By the same token, MPSIMS-like posts don’t belong in the Pit.
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11457755&postcount=34
Y’know honestly, it’s really not all that surprising, since your modern American style of liberalism does indeed take its roots from my more classical European style. We’re friends on far more levels than we are enemies — most of which involve the economic side of things. And even then, if you thought about it deeper, you’d see more similarities than you might think.
It’s just one person. Well, one family — my wife and I. (I do love how you spell “tire”, though.) But it increases the safety of a number of people, namely those who turn left. When I see them (and I work at home right by the window), I chase after them with my shotgun. Unfortunately, I’m usually not fast enough loading, cocking, and opening the front door. But on a few occasions, I’ve shot the bastards’ rear ends and back glass. (Just bird shot with a 20 guage.)
And that’s why we rant here. It is sometimes all we can do.