# What is Racism? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 28, 2004, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-racism/236865 "2004-03-28T04:32:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2004, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-racism/236865/41 "2004-03-29T03:26:02Z")
> [@Science Girl](#): > > Brown ethnic group. UPS workers are a racial group now? ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2004, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-racism/236865/42 "2004-03-29T03:36:13Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > UPS workers are a racial group now? Hahahaha, that’s a good one. 😃 I’m going to guess that she’s either Latino (or for women, would it be Latina?) or from India. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2004, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-racism/236865/43 "2004-03-29T04:05:40Z")
> [@Science Girl](#): > > Well, since you are not interested in taking the time to go through MacDonald’s works, here is a compilation of relevant exerpts from his book: [http://home.comcast.net/~neoeugenics/ethnic.htm](http://home.comcast.net/~neoeugenics/ethnic.htm) Judaism has been a very ethnocentric religion. This isn’t a “Compilation and relevant exerpts” from his book, it’s an essay by a guy named Matt Nuencke, with precious few quotes from MacDonald. Frankly, you should be openly skeptical of an author who claims Jews “turn Whites against themselves.” MacDonald’s frequent use of lies is a bit problematic, too. He’s a notorious anti-Semite and has openly called for Jews to be excluded from universities, heavily taxed, and disadvantaged in other ways. McDonald’s entire theory seems to be that Jewish society is eugenics in action, a theory completely and utterly refuted by any reasonable examination of either history of basic biology, and based on “Facts” that MacDonald seems, in many cases, to have just totally made up off the top of his head. Jews (of any stripe) are not a distinct genetic race or even close to it, and the very concept of race is scientifically problematic. Do a few searches on the SDMB; we’ve beaten this horse to death. I don’t mean to be rude or engage in ad hominems, but you seem to have a way of citing racists with questionable academic qualifications as experts and “professors,” based on their off-brand books and Web site ramblings. A student, as you claim to be, shouldn’t be looking to Web sites that don’t cite any primary sources as reasonable sources. And I admit it does give me pause that MacDonald openly calls for Jews to be disenfranchised; your other source, the “Birdman,” refers to Jews as a “malarial swamp” that “must be drained.” If you’re going to position yourself as anti-Jew you may as well come out and make your position on this matter clear, because your bibliography is sure tilted that way. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2004, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-racism/236865/44 "2004-03-29T04:35:12Z")
Science Girl, the site that you linked belongs to Matt Nuenke. He used to post a lot on [Salon.com](http://Salon.com)’s message board. He’s an avowed racist and white supremacist, anti-Semite, fiercely opposed to interracial marriage, the whole Stormfront program. You also linked to American Rennaisance, another site produced by avowed racists, white supremacists and Nazi sympathizers. I’ve come to believe that people like this pose a greater danger to white Americans than black Americans and other peoples of color. Why? Because they distract white Americans from the real issues. They encourage white Americans to think of themselves as victims, and withdraw from the real struggle to achieve something meaningful in a country that offers white people more opportunity for success than anywhere in the world. The Stormfront types have been misled, and seek to mislead others, with what Stanley Crouch calls the “Decoy of Race”. It goes almost without saying that the “scientific” evidence claimed by Nuenke, MacDonald, Jared Taylor, Rushton, et al. is pathetic stuff, debunked endlessly by legitimate scientists. One of the big struggles that many black Americans go through is avoiding the bitterness and frustration that result from encounters with racism. It’s difficult but crucial to focus on making the most of the opportunities that one does have, and not be consumed with bitterness over the opportunities that one doesn’t. Black Americans still face racial discrimination in housing, employment, public education, and the justice system. The persistence of this discrimination has been proven by extensive testing as well as statistical analysis. Black Americans are constistently treated worse than whites in situations ranging from getting a table in a restaurant to house hunting to hiring and promotion on the job. One disparity I find particularly striking is difference in sentencing for homicide depending on whether the victim is white or black. Criminals who kill whites consistently get stiffer sentences than those who kill blacks. Even with the discrimination that still exists, there are more opportunities for black Americans to succeed than have ever existed before. In her controversial book, _The End of Blackness_, Debra Dickerson argues that black Americans owe it to themselves to take full advantage of the opportunities that do exist, in spite of the fact that a lot of white people will never get it, never give up their racism or recognize how wrong it is. The stormfront types aren’t satisfied with the significant advantage that they already enjoy over black Americans and other peoples of color. They want an even greater advantage. They’re not willing to jump in the game til they get a guarrantee that the refs will never call a foul against them. More and more this strikes me as an admission that they don’t really want to play the game - they want to stand on the sidelines and complain about how the rules are stacked against them. It may be a tacit admission that they can’t play the game at all. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2004, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-racism/236865/45 "2004-03-29T06:40:14Z")
> [@](#): > > I trust Professor MacDonald’s work. But I believe you are entitled to your opinion. Well, I’m going to hold my informed opinion, regardless, but I am curious as to why you would choose to “trust” the work of someone who has proven himself a liar. Is there something comforting in the lies he tells that makes you feel good? It seems odd that someone who would choose the usename “_Science_ Girl” would deliberately prefer lies to facts. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2004, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-racism/236865/46 "2004-03-29T11:41:11Z")
> [@Science Girl](#): > > I trust Professor MacDonald’s work. But I believe you are entitled to your opinion. His “work,” at least insofar as can be determined by the links you have provided, is remarkably bereft of citations to evidence or source. It is, in other words, merely a collection of gratuitous assertions, which, as a student of debate, you yourself understand may be equally gratuitously denied. On the other hand, even for the short claims I made, you will notice that I provided independent citations that directly support the factual claims I was making. Based on that, for the moment I shall chose not to repose much trust in Mr. MacDonald’s work. I am certainly open to other evidence of his scholarship, however. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![Science\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f14d63/32.png) [@Science\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Science_Girl)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2004, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-racism/236865/47 "2004-03-29T23:32:02Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Well, I’m going to hold my informed opinion, regardless, but I am curious as to why you would choose to “trust” the work of someone who has proven himself a liar. Is there something comforting in the lies he tells that makes you feel good? It seems odd that someone who would choose the usename “_Science_ Girl” would deliberately prefer lies to facts. I don’t believe he lied, rather I believe the sources you used are based on lies and perhaps you don’t realize it Regards. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2004, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-racism/236865/48 "2004-03-29T23:45:03Z")
> [@Science Girl](#): > > I don’t believe he lied, rather I believe the sources you used are based on lies and perhaps you don’t realize it Very scientific. “Nyah nyah, you’re wrong!” would be a more simple way of stating your “facts.” ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2004, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-racism/236865/49 "2004-03-30T02:47:53Z")
**Science Girl** > [@](#): > > Actually, I’m glad I am not White, I’d just be part of the White sheep masses waiting to go to “Heaven” where you get year round free buffet of pork ribs and beer. [Moderator Hat ON] This is NOT the forum for race-bashing, Science Girl. You can get banned for hate speech here. Cool it. [Moderator Hat OFF] ---
**Author:** ![Science\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f14d63/32.png) [@Science\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Science_Girl)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2004, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-racism/236865/50 "2004-03-30T02:59:23Z")
> [@Gaudere](#): > > **Science Girl** > [Moderator Hat ON] > > This is NOT the forum for race-bashing, Science Girl. You can get banned for hate speech here. Cool it. > > [Moderator Hat OFF] I had already apologized for my original posting style. Regards. ---
**Author:** ![castaway](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c0e974/32.png) [@castaway](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/castaway)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2004, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-racism/236865/51 "2004-03-30T03:06:11Z")
> [@Science Girl](#): > > By the way, I should mention that I myself am “a person of color,” but I still found this article to have some merit when pointing out the many double standards within the whole field of racism activism. > > Science Girl Hello Science girl. While I understand the historical context of “colored people,” that to is kind of misleading the way it’s used in the media these days. To be blunt, “white people” who are typically defined, I would guess, as the colorless people, have the largest variety of color on the planet given their various shades of pigmentation. Eyes, skin and hair are all the most colorful on the planet. It’s kind of funny when you really think about how media covers things. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2004, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-racism/236865/52 "2004-03-30T03:46:11Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t believe he lied, rather I believe the sources you used are based on lies and perhaps you don’t realize it. Go back and read his claim. He lied. He made a specific statement that the Jews in Egypt somehow “inserted” themselves between the Egyptian rulers and the poor people in Egypt and garnered wealth in that manner. However, that is pure invention. If we consider the Scriptures, we see that the Hebrews were the poorest of the peoples, not wealthy, at all. We also see that they were not “between” any other group and the Egyptian rulers. What he has done is project the lies of the anti-semitic racists of the late 19th and early 20th century who claimed that Jews were controlling the money and getting rich off the poor of Europe(and later the U.S.) and projected that propaganda back to the story of the sojourn in Egypt _without providing any evidence and in direct contradiction of all know information_. If he has an actual “source” for his claim, can you actually find it? Or will we simply see more lies? One distorted story of Joseph, coming up. ---
**Author:** ![Science\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f14d63/32.png) [@Science\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Science_Girl)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2004, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-racism/236865/53 "2004-03-30T05:28:08Z")
> [@castaway](#): > > Hello Science girl. > > While I understand the historical context of “colored people,” that to is kind of misleading the way it’s used in the media these days. > > To be blunt, “white people” who are typically defined, I would guess, as the colorless people, have the largest variety of color on the planet given their various shades of pigmentation. Eyes, skin and hair are all the most colorful on the planet. > > It’s kind of funny when you really think about how media covers things. Yes, that’s true. I though am just one color: brown. Regards. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2004, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-racism/236865/54 "2004-03-30T05:48:09Z")
> [@Science Girl](#): > > Yes, that’s true. I though am just one color: brown. The same color as… wood. Too bad Science Girl and castaway can’t mate. They’d be perfect for each other. What does this have to do with “what is racism” again? ---
**Author:** ![Science\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f14d63/32.png) [@Science\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Science_Girl)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2004, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-racism/236865/55 "2004-03-30T05:56:24Z")
Here is Pat Buchanan’s take on race relations: America in 2050: Another country * * * Posted: March 24, 2004 1:00 a.m. Eastern © 2004 [WorldNetDaily.com](http://WorldNetDaily.com) In 1960, when JFK defeated Nixon, America was a nation of 160 million, 90 percent white and 10 percent black, with a few million Hispanics and Asians sprinkled among us. We were one nation, one people. We worshipped the same God, spoke the same English language, studied American history and English literature, honored the same heroes, read the same books, watched the same TV shows, went to the same movies, and saw ourselves as defenders of Western Civilization against the godless communism of the Soviet Empire. Complete text at [http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE\_ID=37720](http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=37720) Regards ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2004, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-racism/236865/56 "2004-03-30T06:03:23Z")
> [@Science Girl](#): > > Here is Pat Buchanan’s take on race relations: > > We were one nation, one people. We worshipped the same God, spoke the same English language, studied American history and English literature, honored the same heroes, read the same books, watched the same TV shows, went to the same movies… …sig-heiled the same leaders, had the same colored skin, thought the same way, repressed the same people, committed the same crimes, ignored the same social ills… > [@](#): > > and saw ourselves as defenders of Western Civilization against the godless communism of the Soviet Empire. hehe. Yea. That was pretty funny. What exactly does that have to do with anything, Science Girl? Are you trying to show what racism is? Because that is a pretty admirable cite for racism. ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2004, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-racism/236865/57 "2004-03-30T06:22:25Z")
> [@Science Girl](#): > > Here is Pat Buchanan’s take on race relations Damn, you’ve won me over! Who could have guessed that such a distinguished commentator, universally recognized for his unbiased attitudes would support white supremacist arguments. I’m throwing in the towel right now! **Science Girl** , I don’t believe you’re brown. I’m brownish myself, but I don’t refer to myself as being of “brown ethnicity”. Also, you appear to hold views held by white supremacists, which is uncommon for people of “brown ethnicity”. I don’t believe you’re a girl. I sure don’t believe you’re scientific, though maybe that’s just a bit of artistic licence in your name. Your material, your style of argument and the way you end your posts with “Regards” make me think you’re the sock of some banned poster. Why don’t you have the courage to post as yourself? ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2004, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-racism/236865/58 "2004-03-30T06:29:33Z")
> [@lambchops](#): > > **Science Girl** , I don’t believe you’re brown. I’m brownish myself, but I don’t refer to myself as being of “brown ethnicity”. Also, you appear to hold views held by white supremacists, which is uncommon for people of “brown ethnicity”. I believe the contrary. I believe she is “brown” - but she hates being brown, and carries deep guilt and regret for being born in such a poor position. It happens sometimes. > [@](#): > > I don’t believe you’re a girl. I haven’t seen anything to suggest otherwise, though I wouldn’t be terribly surprised either way. > [@](#): > > I sure don’t believe you’re scientific I dunno, her well-rounded rebuttals of, “I don’t believe that is true” and “You just don’t believe my sources are true because you’re a sheep of the Jewish NWO” are pretty convincing. > [@](#): > > Your material, your style of argument and the way you end your posts with “Regards” Y’know, you’d think someone would be able to figure out how to use the god damned .sig instead of typing that out every time, much less making everyone delete it when replying. I’ll say it again, the polite and nice ones like SG and castaway are what you have to watch out for. They make up for their controversial beliefs with pleasantries to make themselves appear more moral and upstanding than the unwashed, uneducated masses. It is part of their psychology. ---
**Author:** ![Science\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f14d63/32.png) [@Science\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Science_Girl)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2004, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-racism/236865/59 "2004-03-30T06:37:05Z")
> [@lambchops](#): > > Damn, you’ve won me over! Who could have guessed that such a distinguished commentator, universally recognized for his unbiased attitudes would support white supremacist arguments. I’m throwing in the towel right now! > > **Science Girl** , I don’t believe you’re brown. I’m brownish myself, but I don’t refer to myself as being of “brown ethnicity”. Also, you appear to hold views held by white supremacists, which is uncommon for people of “brown ethnicity”. > > I don’t believe you’re a girl. I sure don’t believe you’re scientific, though maybe that’s just a bit of artistic licence in your name. Your material, your style of argument and the way you end your posts with “Regards” make me think you’re the sock of some banned poster. Why don’t you have the courage to post as yourself? I respect your opinioin. Regards. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2004, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-racism/236865/60 "2004-03-30T06:41:26Z")
See, she’s going for the martyrdom of the kind and generous angle now. She’ll probably walk away from this board thinking about how abused she was, and be sad that we weren’t open minded enough able to accept her new wisdom. Self-dellusion can be a powerful thing, but unfortunately, this’ll probably only fuel her beliefs. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-racism/236865.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-racism/236865.md?page=4)