# What Is Ralph Nader Doing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 25, 2008, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-ralph-nader-doing/439062 "2008-02-25T10:45:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2008, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-ralph-nader-doing/439062/61 "2008-02-26T18:02:44Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] When you flip the lever for Nader you think ,If enough people do this we can really shake up the system. So far it has not happened. Maybe this time it will. Only one way to find out. [/QUOTE] The same way you “shook up the system” the last time? :rolleyes: Why are you voting for someone who not only knows he can’t win, but is doing everything he can to make sure he doesn’t have the slightest chance of winning? No groundwork, vague unworkable policies, no way to reach a consensus with Congress, lackluster campaign and an extremely late entry-why don’t you just wear a tee-shirt that says “Used By Nader In 'O8”? ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2008, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-ralph-nader-doing/439062/62 "2008-02-26T19:54:28Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] why don’t you just wear a tee-shirt that says “Used By Nader In 'O8”? [/QUOTE] “I voted for Nader and all I got was this stupid tee-shirt, and a President I don’t want.” ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2008, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-ralph-nader-doing/439062/63 "2008-02-26T19:56:59Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] The same way you “shook up the system” the last time? :rolleyes: Why are you voting for someone who not only knows he can’t win, but is doing everything he can to make sure he doesn’t have the slightest chance of winning? No groundwork, vague unworkable policies, no way to reach a consensus with Congress, lackluster campaign and an extremely late entry-why don’t you just wear a tee-shirt that says “Used By Nader In 'O8”? [/QUOTE] He can’t win if don’t vote for him. If I do there is a better chance than if I don’t.Therefore I dood it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2008, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-ralph-nader-doing/439062/64 "2008-02-26T20:10:52Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] He can’t win if don’t vote for him. If I do there is a better chance than if I don’t.Therefore I dood it. [/QUOTE] He can’t win _period_, because he isn’t running to win. If there was a chance in hell of Nader winning, he’d drop out of the race so fast your head would spin. ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2008, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-ralph-nader-doing/439062/65 "2008-02-26T20:18:00Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] He can’t win if don’t vote for him. If I do there is a better chance than if I don’t.Therefore I dood it. [/QUOTE] **Gonzo** , if he’s serious about running, why did he wait so long to declare? Why didn’t he start campaigning and raising money years ago like the other candidates? Isn’t it more likely this is just a publicity stunt because he _knows_ he has zero chance of doing anything other than screwing the election for (most likely) Barack or Hillary? If you want to vote for Nader, by all means do so. Just don’t delude yourself into thinking he has any kind of a chance. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2008, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-ralph-nader-doing/439062/66 "2008-02-26T20:22:18Z")
If I vote for him , are his chances of success better than if I do not?Sure. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2008, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-ralph-nader-doing/439062/67 "2008-02-26T20:30:47Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] If I vote for him , are his chances of success better than if I do not?Sure. [/QUOTE] Not if he has no intention of winning. The game is rigged to the max, and Ralph ain’t the riggee, he’s the rigger. Quick quiz for you: How many times do you have to play three-card monte before you have a decent chance at winning? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2008, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-ralph-nader-doing/439062/68 "2008-02-26T21:15:15Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] If I vote for him , are his chances of success better than if I do not?Sure. [/QUOTE] His chance of winning is essentially zero…and remains unchanged if you (for the other 1-2% of the voting public who vote for this fool) vote for him or not. However, depending on where you are those 1-2% of the votes may make all the difference in the world if the contest is close (not that I expect it to be, but you never know…I didn’t think GW would win in 2000, nor Clinton in '93). I think you should vote your consious. If you REALLY think Ralphy is the best choice and you REALLY don’t agree with Obama/Clinton or McCain then you shouldn’t vote the lesser of two weevils thingy. However, don’t delude yourself into thinking he has any kind of realistic chance. He has none. He knows it. And everyone else knows it to. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2008, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-ralph-nader-doing/439062/69 "2008-02-26T21:30:12Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] If I vote for him , are his chances of success better than if I do not?Sure. [/QUOTE] There are things you can do to increase the likelihood that you will be quantum teleported through your bedroom door. But individually, these things are not very large. And you will probably be waiting until the end of the universe and still, you will not be quantum teleported. But you will have increased that probability, you betcha. ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2008, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-ralph-nader-doing/439062/70 "2008-02-26T21:37:56Z")
At least do us all a favor **Gonz**. Before you vote find one person who would be likely to vote the opposite (if you would have voted Democrat find a Republican) and convince that person to also vote for Nader. That way the rest of the election remains in balance. Unless of course you’re a Republican, then forget it. Vote Nader! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2008, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-ralph-nader-doing/439062/71 "2008-02-26T21:43:45Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] When you flip the lever for Nader you think ,If enough people do this we can really shake up the system. So far it has not happened. [/QUOTE] Actually, it kind of did. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2008, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-ralph-nader-doing/439062/72 "2008-02-26T21:44:55Z")
A vote for Nader is marginally more helpful than staying home, since it is essentially a “none of the above” vote. But honestly, if your only input into politics is casting a vote every two years, and nothing more, then you’re right that your vote doesn’t mean much. You are only one person with only one vote, and there are 299,999,999 other people out there who aren’t you. So just showing up to the polling booth every 2 years and pulling the lever for some random candidate is a pretty piss-poor way of getting the policies you support enacted into law. The way you really get the policies you want enacted is to convince lots of OTHER people that they need to show up and pull the lever for the correct candidate. Voting for the anti-corruption candidate isn’t an effective way to reduce corruption in government. Convincing thousands of people to vote for the anti-corruption candidate IS. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2008, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-ralph-nader-doing/439062/73 "2008-02-26T21:46:31Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] When you have the choice of voting between two perceived evils, and one is greater than the other, _vote for the lesser evil._ This shows that you are willing to help heal the country, even one step at a time, and gives hope to others who need it. If you were given a choice between having a finger cut off and a hand cut off, would you really say, “Since they would both do me harm, it doesn’t matter what you do to me”? [/QUOTE] But this choice doesn’t actually exist. You aren’t locked into two options. People like you are convinced that you are, and you attack anyone who says differently, and it’s people like you who actually force us into this situation. I would vote to neither chop off my finger or my hand. [QUOTE=Czarcasm] The same way you “shook up the system” the last time? :rolleyes: [/quote] There are people on this thread saying that the green party won’t receive many votes because the democrats have absorbed a lot of what the green party stood for. So if true, as a result of the 2000 election, the democrats changed to appeal to the potential voters they lost. This could be evidence of the point I was making earlier about potentially forcing the major parties to represent your ideals. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2008, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-ralph-nader-doing/439062/74 "2008-02-26T21:55:45Z")
[QUOTE=SenorBeef] There are people on this thread saying that the green party won’t receive many votes because the democrats have absorbed a lot of what the green party stood for. So if true, as a result of the 2000 election, the democrats changed to appeal to the potential voters they lost. This could be evidence of the point I was making earlier about potentially forcing the major parties to represent your ideals. [/QUOTE] Exactly. And I agree with you by the way that a person who actually doesn’t feel like either candidate represents their own view point or agenda shouldn’t hold their nose and vote for them simply because someone who DOES feel strongly about it wants their vote. If the Dem’s (or the Republican’s) want to get those marginal votes then they should change their policies more to incorporate them to woo those folks over. If not…well, the only way you (and a couple million of your close friends who think the same way) are going to get change is to give a wake up call to the major parties. And the only way you are going to do that is to vote for a third party and take votes away from one of the big two. That said, voting for Nader in THIS election is less than meaningless IMHO. The Green’s have already had much of their program incorporated into the Dem party at this point. Both Obama and Clinton are on board IMHO…at least as much as any major party is going to be in the US. And Nader isn’t really running for the Green’s this time as a poster up thread pointed out…he is running simply as an independent. What exactly differentiates him from Obama or Clinton? What message (assuming there are enough folks willing to vote for him) are you attempting to send to the Dem’s with your stance? I’m not seeing it myself. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2008, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-ralph-nader-doing/439062/75 "2008-02-26T21:56:06Z")
[QUOTE=SenorBeef] There are people on this thread saying that the green party won’t receive many votes because the democrats have absorbed a lot of what the green party stood for. So if true, as a result of the 2000 election, the democrats changed to appeal to the potential voters they lost. This could be evidence of the point I was making earlier about potentially forcing the major parties to represent your ideals. [/QUOTE] I’ll be damned if I give Nader an iota of credit for all the hard work done by the Green Party. He used them to get his own message broadcast, period. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2008, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-ralph-nader-doing/439062/76 "2008-02-26T22:03:25Z")
They used him to. He was a big name and got them a lot of recognition. I think it worked out both ways there. The Green agenda is now on the front burner…and part of that is due to Darth Nader’s run in 2000. -XT ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-ralph-nader-doing/439062/77 "2008-02-27T14:21:37Z")
The vitriolic temper tantrums which spew from the keyboards of Democratic partisans due to this topic fills me with glee. > [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > Let’s suppose there are two major candidates–let’s call them Bush and Gore–who are almost tied at 49 and 50 percent respectively. If a third party candidate – let’s call him Nader, takes two percent of the vote and that two percent happens to come mostly from people who otherwise would have picked Gore, then Bush ends up winning. Wait, why would a Nader voter who couldn’t vote for Nader end up voting for Gore instead of just staying home with the other 60 or 70 million people who decided not to vote for the blood soaked imperialists? And have you considered that, ya know, maybe that’s the whole point? > [@xtisme](#): > > What message (assuming there are enough folks willing to vote for him) are you attempting to send to the Dem’s with your stance? I’m not seeing it myself. I can’t speak from personal experience, but I imagine it’d be something about not supporting their policies which create piles of corpses or other such vagaries. These people can be really sentimental. It’s the closest they can go towards throwing a bomb without getting arrested. Personally, that’s way too much work. I’d just prefer to stay home and [masturbate for peace.](http://www.masturbateforpeace.com/) > [@Lemur866](#): > > So just showing up to the polling booth every 2 years and pulling the lever for some random candidate is a pretty piss-poor way of getting the policies you support enacted into law. The way you really get the policies you want enacted is to convince lots of OTHER people that they need to show up and pull the lever for the correct candidate. Voting for the anti-corruption candidate isn’t an effective way to reduce corruption in government. Convincing thousands of people to vote for the anti-corruption candidate IS. You’re correct that just going out and voting does nothing. There needs to be a widespread popular grass roots movement. Which won’t happen, of course, given the large, fractured nature of our society, among other things. There is not presently nor will there ever by under the current system an actual “anti-corruption candidate” the delirious masses can cling unto for salvation. The deck is rigged, the board is tilted. Have fun watching the show. [QUOTE=Sophistry and Illusion] Very well-said. This should be tattooed on the forehead of every Nader 2000 voter. Because they wanted to ‘express’ themselves, we are now in Iraq. Feel better about yourselves? Tell it to the dead. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Jolly Roger] Ralph, the presidential race isn’t a platform for you to get your message out. I don’t gicve a rats ass what the message is, either. If you’re running just to get your word out or get your face on TV or just to screw with the two parties, you’re a douche. After the last 8 years even a blind, mentally disabled lemur can see that this election is very, very important. Stroke yourself somewhere else, jerk. [/QUOTE] God, I love it. It’s like music to my ears. Imperialists? Nationalists? Blood thirsty greedy businessmen? Nope, the problem is…GO RALPH! Yeah! ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-ralph-nader-doing/439062/78 "2008-02-27T14:33:14Z")
Reminding you how he helped GWB become President, in case you forgot. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-ralph-nader-doing/439062/79 "2008-02-27T14:37:56Z")
[QUOTE=marshmallow] You’re correct that just going out and voting does nothing. There needs to be a widespread popular grass roots movement. Which won’t happen, of course, given the large, fractured nature of our society, among other things. There is not presently nor will there ever by under the current system an actual “anti-corruption candidate” the delirious masses can cling unto for salvation. The deck is rigged, the board is tilted. Have fun watching the show. [/QUOTE] No, it is has failed because large, grassroots, populist movements have simply never gained traction with the American people. While it is easy and convenient to blame a tilted board, greedy businessmen, and grasping imperialists, the truth is, people simply do not share your preferences. They never have, and they probably never will, your fulmination aside. Ralph, not the rest of the electoral show, is the worn-out old sitcom that the networks never stop syndicating. For the rest of us living under a blue sky, the main contest is actually quite real. ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2008, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-ralph-nader-doing/439062/80 "2008-02-27T15:36:05Z")
[QUOTE=marshmallow] The vitriolic temper tantrums which spew from the keyboards of Democratic partisans due to this topic fills me with glee. Wait, why would a Nader voter who couldn’t vote for Nader end up voting for Gore instead of just staying home with the other 60 or 70 million people who decided not to vote for the blood soaked imperialists? And have you considered that, ya know, maybe that’s the whole point? I can’t speak from personal experience, but I imagine it’d be something about not supporting their policies which create piles of corpses or other such vagaries. These people can be really sentimental. It’s the closest they can go towards throwing a bomb without getting arrested. Personally, that’s way too much work. I’d just prefer to stay home and [masturbate for peace.](http://www.masturbateforpeace.com/) You’re correct that just going out and voting does nothing. There needs to be a widespread popular grass roots movement. Which won’t happen, of course, given the large, fractured nature of our society, among other things. There is not presently nor will there ever by under the current system an actual “anti-corruption candidate” the delirious masses can cling unto for salvation. The deck is rigged, the board is tilted. Have fun watching the show. God, I love it. It’s like music to my ears. Imperialists? Nationalists? Blood thirsty greedy businessmen? Nope, the problem is…GO RALPH! Yeah! [/QUOTE] Well, except [by Nader’s own numbers, his running cost Gore Florida:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Nader%27s_presidential_campaigns#Result) > [@wiki](#): > > As it turned out, the number of votes Nader received in Florida exceeded the number of votes by which Bush defeated Gore in Florida by some 89,000, leading some to speculate as to whether or not Nader and/or his supporters “cost Gore the presidency.” Nader, both in his book Crashing the Party, and on his website, states: “In the year 2000, exit polls reported that 25% of my voters would have voted for Bush, 38% would have voted for Gore and the rest would not have voted at all.” So quit it with the superiority. Yeah, Gore could have run a better campaign. But that is no excuse to further hamstring him and help put Bush in office. There is no denying responsibility for this; the numbers speak for themselves. I hope you Nader supporters are enjoying the Iraq war as much as the rest of us are. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-ralph-nader-doing/439062.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-ralph-nader-doing/439062.md?page=5)