# What is "rational" behavior? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 26, 2007, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-rational-behavior/401757 "2007-04-26T17:41:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Alwrong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/94ad74/32.png) [@Alwrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alwrong)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-rational-behavior/401757/1 "2007-04-26T17:41:16Z")
I think that I am rational. I think that I lead a rational lifestyle. I think that my behavior is rational. I think. It’s obvious. Can it be anything else? The outcome of my behavior isn’t always what I expected, but, at the time, I thought that what I was doing made sense. And it is obvious to me that some people are not rational, that their behavior is not rational and their lifestyle is not rational. But it’s not obvious to me why I think that way. Which behaviors are not rational? How about that of religious extremists? Or users of dangerous drugs? Or extreme sports fanatics? Or people who build dream castles in the air? Or people who move into them? 🙂 Is “rational” the same as “sane”? Is it the same as “logical”? Is it the same as “reasonable”? Is rational behavior \*more likely \* to achieve expected results? (Hmmm … can expected results be “irrational”?) It seems that rational behavior is somehow connected with survival, of the individual and of a group of individuals. And with some notion of overall “happiness”. Given a specific behavior, how would you determine whether it is rational? Or would you say that it is merely behavior? ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-rational-behavior/401757/2 "2007-04-26T18:01:15Z")
From [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationality#Rationality_in_the_humanities_and_social_sciences): > [@](#): > > In economics, sociology, and political science, a decision or situation is often called rational if it is in some sense optimal, and individuals or organizations are often called rational if they tend to act somehow optimally in pursuit of their goals. Thus one speaks, for example, of a rational allocation of resources, or of a rational corporate strategy. In this concept of “rationality”, the individual’s goals or motives are taken for granted and not made subject to criticism, ethical or otherwise. Thus rationality simply refers to the success of goal attainment, whatever those goals may be. Sometimes, in this context, rationality is equated with behavior that is self-interested to the point of being selfish. Sometimes rationality implies having complete knowledge about all the details of a given situation. It might be said that because the goals are not important in definition of rationality, it really only demands logical consistency in choice making. I think that’s a reasonable start for a definition. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-rational-behavior/401757/3 "2007-04-26T18:28:16Z")
> [@](#): > > Or people who build dream castles in the air? Or people who move into them? 🙂 Rita Rudner’s mother cleans them. ---
**Author:** ![Alwrong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/94ad74/32.png) [@Alwrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alwrong)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-rational-behavior/401757/4 "2007-04-26T18:39:56Z")
[QUOTE=ultrafilter] From [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationality#Rationality_in_the_humanities_and_social_sciences):I think that’s a reasonable start for a definition. [/QUOTE] Thanks. Nice and succint. Is there any common behavior that you think is not rational? Any of your behaviors? ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-rational-behavior/401757/5 "2007-04-26T19:43:44Z")
[QUOTE=Alwrong] Thanks. Nice and succint. Is there any common behavior that you think is not rational? Any of your behaviors? [/QUOTE] Smoking would certainly be classified under non-rational behavior. Really, just about any addiction would fit that category. ---
**Author:** ![Alwrong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/94ad74/32.png) [@Alwrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alwrong)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-rational-behavior/401757/6 "2007-04-26T21:56:31Z")
[QUOTE=Antinor01] Smoking would certainly be classified under non-rational behavior. [/QUOTE] Why? As much as I agree with you, I’m not sure why it’s not rational, in comparison to “rational” behaviors? Is drinking coffee rational? How about consuming alcohol? Is it the addiction that’s not rational, or the behaviour itself? In a way, it seems that, once you’re addicted, feeding the addiction is rational. Why suffer the withdrawal pains? ---
**Author:** ![Dunawake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dunawake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunawake)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-rational-behavior/401757/7 "2007-04-26T22:07:50Z")
[QUOTE=Alwrong] Why? As much as I agree with you, I’m not sure why it’s not rational, in comparison to “rational” behaviors? Is drinking coffee rational? How about consuming alcohol? Is it the addiction that’s not rational, or the behaviour itself? In a way, it seems that, once you’re addicted, feeding the addiction is rational. Why suffer the withdrawal pains? [/QUOTE] Well, I think it’s something where you have to look at the whole picture. It may only be considered “rational” when looking at a very small subset of goals. It satisfies a small set of goals like “temporary pleasure” and “lack of withdrawal” but violates others such as “less likely to die of cancer”. Then it comes down to which goals you consider to be the higher priority. ---
**Author:** ![wendigo1974](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@wendigo1974](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wendigo1974)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-rational-behavior/401757/8 "2007-04-26T22:37:55Z")
[QUOTE=Dunawake] Well, I think it’s something where you have to look at the whole picture. It may only be considered “rational” when looking at a very small subset of goals. It satisfies a small set of goals like “temporary pleasure” and “lack of withdrawal” but violates others such as “less likely to die of cancer”. Then it comes down to which goals you consider to be the higher priority. [/QUOTE] That’s a ‘Bigger Picture’ view of being rational. If you were to take that as a basis, you would be hard pressed to classify someone as ‘irrational’ in a day to day situation as you would probably fall foul of the ‘Bigger Picture’ version somewhere or other yourself. I always consider ‘rational’ on a par with ‘conversational’. If two people can chat about diametric viewpoints then that is rational behaviour. Rational behaviour also assumes both people ‘know’ the other is completely wrong in their thinking whilst talking. Ergo Bias. Rational becomes Irrational when making thier point exceeds either truth, knowledge or simply abuse of power to ensure they ‘think’ they have attained the higher ground. No comeback their way coming. While not on the level of dealing with psychopaths, office politics does make for an absorbing subject. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-rational-behavior/401757/9 "2007-04-26T22:45:21Z")
[QUOTE=Dunawake] Well, I think it’s something where you have to look at the whole picture. It may only be considered “rational” when looking at a very small subset of goals. It satisfies a small set of goals like “temporary pleasure” and “lack of withdrawal” but violates others such as “less likely to die of cancer”. Then it comes down to which goals you consider to be the higher priority. [/QUOTE] This would pretty much cover my thinking on it. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-rational-behavior/401757/10 "2007-04-26T22:51:30Z")
[QUOTE=Dunawake] Well, I think it’s something where you have to look at the whole picture. It may only be considered “rational” when looking at a very small subset of goals. It satisfies a small set of goals like “temporary pleasure” and “lack of withdrawal” but violates others such as “less likely to die of cancer”. Then it comes down to which goals you consider to be the higher priority. [/QUOTE] No, I think it can be considered rational because they have done the calculus in their head and determined that they prefer to have the cigarette over not having it. Rationality is basically this, given choices a person makes the most preferred choice to them given the information available to them.. Trading off a longer life for more pleasure now is no more irrational than trading off a night out to eat for a new pair of shoes. ---
**Author:** ![Dunawake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dunawake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunawake)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-rational-behavior/401757/11 "2007-04-26T23:37:12Z")
[QUOTE=Gangster Octopus] No, I think it can be considered rational because they have done the calculus in their head and determined that they prefer to have the cigarette over not having it. Rationality is basically this, given choices a person makes the most preferred choice to them given the information available to them.. Trading off a longer life for more pleasure now is no more irrational than trading off a night out to eat for a new pair of shoes. [/QUOTE] But this concept can then be used to justify any behavior as rational. I mean, assume someone finds great pleasure in spending 8 hours a day sorting toothpicks, because it feeds their OCD or something. Most people wouldn’t consider that to be rational behavior, but it could be mentally justified by this person to be higher priority than other activities and therefore be rational.