# What is required to repeal a bill ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 22, 2010, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-required-to-repeal-a-bill/533374 "2010-03-22T19:35:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-required-to-repeal-a-bill/533374/1 "2010-03-22T19:35:53Z")
There is talk of the Republicans, if they take control of both houses, repealing the Healthcare Bill. Is this a feasible, if they have control of both houses (but not the presidency) ? What is involved in repealing a bill ? ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-required-to-repeal-a-bill/533374/2 "2010-03-22T19:42:15Z")
Repeal of an ordinary act requires the same process as enacting it in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-required-to-repeal-a-bill/533374/3 "2010-03-22T19:42:18Z")
Unless they manage to win a _2/3rds_ majority in _both_ houses of Congress they would to to control the presidency also. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-required-to-repeal-a-bill/533374/4 "2010-03-22T19:44:03Z")
You can’t repeal a bill. You can, however, repeal a law. So, when this is passed into law, they need only introduce a bill that undoes everything that this law is going to do, then get it through the House and Senate, then get President Obama to sign it, or find 67 votes to overturn his guaranteed veto. In other words, it’ll never happen. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-required-to-repeal-a-bill/533374/5 "2010-03-22T20:31:06Z")
[The “Repeal The Bill” Crowd And Amazingly Fuzzy Math](http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/3/22/849162/-The-Repeal-The-Bill-Crowd-And-Amazingly-Fuzzy-Math) > [@](#): > > not even a Republican seizure of Congress would allow for a successful repeal of Health Care reform. There is the small matter of the presidential veto. With the veto pen in hand, any GOP effort to repeal isn’t going to require 218 votes in the House and 51 in the Senate, it’s going to require 290 and 67. > > That would require, even if the GOP were able to hold all 34 Democratic dissidents (unlikely), a seventy-eight seat gain in the House for the GOP. > > The wall to climb in the Senate is, shall we say, a little more burdensome. A twenty-six seat gain, which would be particularly problematic, given that there aren’t 26 Democrats running for re-election in this cycle. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-required-to-repeal-a-bill/533374/6 "2010-03-22T21:31:28Z")
Remember you don’t need to repeal a bill all you do is have to pass other bills that render the original bill moot. Such as bills that allow “opt out” or even bills that cut funding or change language definitions. Four years is a long time and by the time 2014 rolls around the bill passed today will be a lot different (for better or worse) than today. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-required-to-repeal-a-bill/533374/7 "2010-03-22T23:16:32Z")
On the other hand, you need only five SCOTUS justices to rule it unconstitutional. Since they have five such justices, they need only find a test case. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-required-to-repeal-a-bill/533374/8 "2010-03-23T00:44:34Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > On the other hand, you need only five SCOTUS justices to rule it unconstitutional. Since they have five such justices, they need only find a test case. The Supreme Court is not in the business of finding the entire contents of ginormous, sweeping legislation unconstitutional. They may find certain provisions of the bill unconstitutional in certain situations, though. But litigating a test case is not a way to backdoor-repeal a law of this magnitude. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-required-to-repeal-a-bill/533374/9 "2010-03-23T01:12:03Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > The Supreme Court is not in the business of finding the entire contents of ginormous, sweeping legislation unconstitutional. [Really?](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Industrial_Recovery_Act) > [@](#): > > The National Industrial Recovery Act (NIRA), officially known as the Act of June 16, 1933 (Ch. 90, 48 Stat. 195, formerly codified at 15 U.S.C. sec. 703), was an American statute which authorized the President of the United States to regulate industry and permit cartels and monopolies in an attempt to stimulate economic recovery, and which established a national public works program > > …The NIRA was set to expire in June 1935, but in a major constitutional ruling the U.S. Supreme Court held Title I of the Act unconstitutional on May 27, 1935, in Schechter Poultry Corp. v. United States, 295 U.S. 495 (1935). I would agree that the Supreme Court is not normally in this business, but it does happen - this decision gutted the NRA and in part prevented renewal of the NIRA. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-required-to-repeal-a-bill/533374/10 "2010-03-23T01:15:52Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > [Really?](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Industrial_Recovery_Act) YA RLY. Even _Schechter_ didn’t invalidate the entire NIRA statute, though it did apply to an unusually large chunk of it. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-required-to-repeal-a-bill/533374/11 "2010-03-23T22:13:03Z")
Although this is obvious, what can and may happen is that the Republicans win both Houses this November _ **and** _ win back the WH in 2012. I seriously doubt that the approval polls on health care are going to go up once it starts being implemented. They’ll probably plummet further. If so, Obama will have a very hard reelection fight… ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-required-to-repeal-a-bill/533374/12 "2010-03-23T23:25:31Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > I seriously doubt that the approval polls on health care are going to go up once it starts being implemented. They’ll probably plummet further. If so, Obama will have a very hard reelection fight… Seriously, that’s bullshit. Why can’t you just stick to the factual subject at hand? ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-required-to-repeal-a-bill/533374/13 "2010-03-23T23:30:31Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > Although this is obvious, what can and may happen is that the Republicans win both Houses this November _ **and** _ win back the WH in 2012. I seriously doubt that the approval polls on health care are going to go up once it starts being implemented. They’ll probably plummet further. If so, Obama will have a very hard reelection fight… Even if Republicans controlled a majority in the House and Senate and the Presidency, Democrats could still filibuster the repeal and they could succeed as long as they had 41 votes in the Senate. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-required-to-repeal-a-bill/533374/14 "2010-03-24T04:18:08Z")
What Blalron said. The most likely path for repeal is a majority in the house, 60 senators, and a republican in the oval office. This is extraordinarily unlikey (the senate being the biggest hurdle) and can’t possibly happen until 2013. ---
**Author:** ![klsdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3ec8ea/32.png) [@klsdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/klsdad)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-required-to-repeal-a-bill/533374/15 "2010-03-24T07:35:17Z")
A more succesful approach might be to repeal bits and pieces of it. Which brings up a question I’ve wondered about for a while … what legislative hurdles are in place to do very specific things quickly? ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-required-to-repeal-a-bill/533374/16 "2010-03-24T13:12:14Z")
> [@klsdad](#): > > A more succesful approach might be to repeal bits and pieces of it. > > Which brings up a question I’ve wondered about for a while … what legislative hurdles are in place to do very specific things quickly? The usual - 400+ congresscritters and 100 senators. The amount of arm-twisting required to get enough members to vote for anything, and the amount of bribing with special favors required, guarantees that nothing gets done fast unless it’s legal protection for motherhood and apple pie… and even then the peach lobby and the rasberry lobby will want changes. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-required-to-repeal-a-bill/533374/17 "2010-03-24T13:52:17Z")
As long as we’re sticking to facts and not grinding political axes… The House of Representatives can act very quickly on any legislation so long as the majority of the members can be persuaded to vote for something. All it takes is for the Rules Committee (which is heavily stacked with members of the majority party) to approve a procedure for limited debate and no amendments, which would be brought to the floor and approved by the majority. A few points of order from the minority are usually defeated in short order, followed by an up-or-down vote on the bill. All this can happen in a single day, if the political will is there to do it. The Senate is different. There are various rules and procedures which afford the benefit of the doubt to delay. If something is supported by all 100 members, it can be approved in mere moments. If there are a few in opposition, but 60 or more in favor, the various motions to shut off a filibuster and proceed to an up-or-down vote on a bill can take the better part of a week to navigate through. If something is not supported by 60 members, it can be debated indefinitely. For some budget related matters, there is a special procedure to limit debate and vote a majority vote within two or three days. Not to explain it to death, but the procedure can only be used on topics that the House and Senate agree it should be used on, and that agreement must be made anew each year in the April-May-June timeframe, when the annual budget resolution is agreed on. So this special procedure (called reconciliation) cannot be pulled out any time the Senate leadership may wish, it has to be planned for well in advance. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Philosopher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3ec8ea/32.png) [@The\_Great\_Philosopher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Philosopher)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-required-to-repeal-a-bill/533374/18 "2010-03-24T15:53:35Z")
> [@klsdad](#): > > A more succesful approach might be to repeal bits and pieces of it. The problem is that this isn’t really possible for the main structure of the legislation. It’s been likened to a four-legged stool - you take one leg out, and the whole thing collapses. If you keep the new insurance regulations on pre-existing conditions and so on, then you have to have the individual mandate (or a version of it) to require healthy people to buy insurance, otherwise insurers would only have sick people on their books and they’d fall into death spirals. But then if you’re requiring people to buy insurance, you have to include subsidies to help less well-off people afford that insurance. Insurance regulations; individual mandate; subsidies. That’s the basic structure of the legislation. If you can’t change them, you can’t radically change the legislation. They could go after some of the cost controls in the bill - the taxes, most likely - but that would involve making changes that significantly increase the deficit, which is illegal under the new Pay-Go law, so they’d have to repeal that law as well. The bottom line is that repealing the legislation is not going to happen. It’s a political talking point and not much more (a lot of Republicans have been backing away from that talking point anyway over the last couple days). They might try and reform it though. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Philosopher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3ec8ea/32.png) [@The\_Great\_Philosopher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Philosopher)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-required-to-repeal-a-bill/533374/19 "2010-03-24T16:01:46Z")
Just as an aside: it’s interesting how much of a status-quo bias there is in the US political system, isn’t it? It takes 12 months of ferocious argument to implement these changes, which were very difficult politically to pass. But then once they’re implemented, it’s very difficult politically to repeal them. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-required-to-repeal-a-bill/533374/20 "2010-03-24T16:30:54Z")
> [@The\_Great\_Philosopher](#): > > Just as an aside: it’s interesting how much of a status-quo bias there is in the US political system, isn’t it? It takes 12 months of ferocious argument to implement these changes, which were very difficult politically to pass. But then once they’re implemented, it’s very difficult politically to repeal them. As far as I understand, the US Constitution makes it difficult to pass laws and even more difficult to repeal them. I am sure someone more knowledgeable will come along to elucidate further. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-required-to-repeal-a-bill/533374.md?page=2)