# What is Sexism? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [April 16, 2013, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-sexism/655853 "2013-04-16T18:06:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-sexism/655853/201 "2013-04-18T20:17:46Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > The fact that you believe my statement to be sexist in nature shows how little you actually understand the discussion, as usual, by providing your commentary which is worth less than zero on this particular subject matter. No, it proves that I don’t agree with you. Nor does most of humanity, few of whom would recognize your definition of “sexism”. Really, the main thing that definition does is hand ammunition to the enemies of women’s rights; it’s exactly how someone who wanted to denigrate feminists would portray feminists as believing. If as a man _I_ had said that’s what feminists think, I’m sure I’d have been accused of sexism and misogyny and dishonesty and so on. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-sexism/655853/202 "2013-04-18T20:22:30Z")
Well, you do have a habit of telling us all the ridiculous reprehensible things that “feminists” allegedly think, based on that one conversation you had 30 years ago. Thinking that sexism can only be directed at women, but that gender discrimination can be directed at both genders is only crazy because you evidently think that logic leads to the approval of mass murder of men as being acceptable. Please, tell me which one of those two messages is insane. But you know, we were having a nice nuanced discussion that many people were participating in until you showed up to tell us how our thinking inevitably excuses mass slaughter of men. Maybe somehow, we could go back to that before time. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-sexism/655853/203 "2013-04-18T20:26:32Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I’m reminded of a feminist I came across back in the late 80s who claimed that there was no moral problems with a genocide against men, because _you can’t be violent against men_ because of the “power structure”. Therefore, the killing of all men would not qualify as a violent act. Which is the same logic that you are using. I frankly don’t believe you. And even if it is true, all it illustrates is that there’s at least one woman capable of making the same _exaggeratio ad absurdum_ conclusions that you frequently do. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-sexism/655853/204 "2013-04-18T20:29:33Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > Thinking that sexism can only be directed at women, but that gender discrimination can be directed at both genders is only crazy because you evidently think that logic leads to the approval of mass murder of men as being acceptable. That is exactly what it does. The mass murder of men is and always has been more acceptable than killing women - and your viewpoint denies that _that_ is sexist. Your are setting up “sexism” as a privileged term that only applies to actions against the gender you regard as superior, a higher being: women. And demanding that a second, lesser term be applied to actions against men, regardless of how brutal those actions may be. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-sexism/655853/205 "2013-04-18T20:33:03Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The mass murder of men is and always has been more acceptable than killing women - and your viewpoint denies that _that_ is sexist. No, it doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-sexism/655853/206 "2013-04-18T20:33:58Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > That is exactly what it does. The mass murder of men is and always has been more acceptable than killing women - and your viewpoint denies that _that_ is sexist. Your are setting up “sexism” as a privileged term that only applies to actions against the gender you regard as superior, a higher being: women. And demanding that a second, lesser term be applied to actions against men, regardless of how brutal those actions may be. You’re just having the same definitional discussion we have had for 5 pages except trying to inflame the discussion by accusing me of being pro-man slaughter. It would be offensive if it weren’t so honestly disturbing. I also like how you’ve made sexism some sort of privilege, as though it’s a “special” and “desirable” term to have, ooh, so shiny and pretty, no! Only for women! ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-sexism/655853/207 "2013-04-18T20:36:28Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > You’re just having the same definitional discussion we have had for 5 pages And finally disgusted me enough I had to respond. > [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > I also like how you’ve made sexism some sort of privilege, as though it’s a “special” and “desirable” term to have, ooh, so shiny and pretty, no! Only for women! No, that’s what _your_ side did in trying to redefine it. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-sexism/655853/208 "2013-04-18T20:43:43Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And finally disgusted me enough I had to respond. > > No, that’s what _your_ side did in trying to redefine it. Yes, **Der** , we know how disgusted you are. Not about man-slaughter, but that women are the recipients of a special form of discrimination that you can’t get your hands on. However, as **zweisamkeit** noted, this is the sociological definition of sexism. Saying sexism is simply gender discrimination is incomplete. It requires that the discrimination have an institutional and power disparity component. My “side” isn’t trying to redefine anything. I know how much you hate it. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-sexism/655853/209 "2013-04-18T20:49:09Z")
I’ve been unable to find a source for the “sociological definition of sexism” that states that sexism cannot mean sexism against men that is not a blog or a message board argument. The dictionary of sociology does not define the term that way. [http://sociology.socialsciencedictionary.com/Sociology-Dictionary/SEXISM](http://sociology.socialsciencedictionary.com/Sociology-Dictionary/SEXISM) > [@](#): > > Beliefs which hold one sex superior to the other thereby justifying sexual inequalities. I apologize in advance if this is a result of weak Google-fu. … As for an actual example of what some claim to be harmful inequality that works against males, that is said by some to be caused by (localized) power-inbalance that works to the disadvantage of males - consider the (again, alleged) rapidly declining outcomes for boys in education. Some have claimed a cause for this is that girls are seen as the “norm” against which boys are measured to their detriment - in short, that girls are superior (at least, in studying for school), and that this superiority justifies a different outcome. [http://www.eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/search/detailmini.jsp?\_nfpb=true&\_&ERICExtSearch\_SearchValue\_0=ED500855&ERICExtSearch\_SearchType\_0=no&accno=ED500855](http://www.eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/search/detailmini.jsp?_nfpb=true&_&ERICExtSearch_SearchValue_0=ED500855&ERICExtSearch_SearchType_0=no&accno=ED500855) [http://www.ccl-cca.ca/ccl/Reports/OtherReports/201104GenderReport.html](http://www.ccl-cca.ca/ccl/Reports/OtherReports/201104GenderReport.html) I’m not an educator, so I can’t say if any of this has any validity (it is hotly debated). But assuming for the moment it was true, could this not be an example of sexism based on a purely local power-imbalance - one that occurs within an educational institution? Or does the greater power-gradient of power imbalance in society generally simply overwhelm any power-imbalance that may exist within a specific, local setting? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-sexism/655853/210 "2013-04-18T20:52:06Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > Yes, **Der** , we know how disgusted you are. Not about man-slaughter, but that women are the recipients of a special form of discrimination that you can’t get your hands on. Ah, so it’s offensive when I point out that your philosophy leads to a disdain for the slaughter of men, but just fine to imply that I don’t care about such a theoretical slaughter despite being one of them. > [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > However, as **zweisamkeit** noted, this is the sociological definition of sexism. Saying sexism is simply gender discrimination is incomplete. It requires that the discrimination have an institutional and power disparity component. Which sexism\* against men does. But you want to just ignore that too, naturally. Your “sociological definition” amounts to “if we use the normal definition, we’ll have to admit that society isn’t sexist against _only_ women, so let’s make up a new one and hope no one calls us on it”. \*Using the normal definition, naturally ---
**Author:** ![randomface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5fc32e/32.png) [@randomface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randomface)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-sexism/655853/211 "2013-04-18T20:53:43Z")
Don’t bother asking about the boundaries for a system to determine power dynamics. It went unanswered earlier. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-sexism/655853/212 "2013-04-18T20:55:10Z")
From the Blackwell Encyclopedia of Sociology: > [@](#): > > Sexism is typically defined as the subordination of one sex, usually female, based on the assumed superiority of the other sex ( Kendall 2005) . ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-sexism/655853/213 "2013-04-18T20:56:24Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Ah, so it’s offensive when I point out that your philosophy leads to a disdain for the slaughter of men, but just fine to imply that I don’t care about such a theoretical slaughter despite being one of them. No, I think the whole “man-slaughter” nonsense is a completely unrelated straw man because you like to portray people as being in favor of things of escalating offensiveness. I was pointing out your usage of the straw man by saying that you aren’t actually disgusted by it because it’s not actually a real issue that’s happening, meaning feminists are not actually arguing that man-slaughter is morally permissible under the aforementioned definition of sexism, nor does it logically lead to that outcome in any scenario. > [@](#): > > Which sexism\* against men does. But you want to just ignore that too, naturally. > > Your “sociological definition” amounts to “if we use the normal definition, we’ll have to admit that society isn’t sexist against _only_ women, so let’s make up a new one and hope no one calls us on it”. > > \*Using the normal definition, naturally Right, ok. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-sexism/655853/214 "2013-04-18T20:58:29Z")
> [@randomface](#): > > Don’t bother asking about the boundaries for a system to determine power dynamics. It went unanswered earlier. Oh, did it really go “unanswered”? > [@randomface](#): > > Say I did play along with your definition, where sexism requires both power and prejudice in order to be “sexism” instead of just “gender discrimination”. > > What are the boundaries for this system in order to define who has the power, and therefore the ability to be sexist on this board? Is it based on who makes up the majority of posters on this board? Who is a moderator, an admin, or owns this website? Or do you default to a much wider view, based on who is in power in the government? > [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > I really don’t know. I couldn’t tell you what the tipping point would be, if there even is such a thing. ---
**Author:** ![randomface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5fc32e/32.png) [@randomface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randomface)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-sexism/655853/215 "2013-04-18T21:05:56Z")
That’s pretty well unanswered. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-sexism/655853/216 "2013-04-18T21:08:30Z")
Why, because I said I don’t know? That’s answering and addressing it, so don’t pretend like your statement went ignored. The truth is that I don’t have an answer on it. What are your theories on the subject? Maybe we can have a discussion instead of a situation where people just ask me questions about stuff. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-sexism/655853/217 "2013-04-18T21:54:53Z")
Wait, so this isn’t the **ladyfoxfyre** AMA about Sexism thread? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-sexism/655853/218 "2013-04-18T21:59:25Z")
Knock it off, **Der Trihs** and people arguing with **Der Trihs**. This thread may have simply run its course, but this is intended to be a discussion that informs how the rules are enforced, not yet another place to run out the same garbage talking points over and over. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I’d have to work hard to come up with anything as offensive as that. I’m a little dubious of this claim. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-sexism/655853/219 "2013-04-18T22:17:30Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > No; it’s more like in an argument over evolution “dismissing all of the people specializing in this area of study” because the ones being linked to are all creationists. This part of your statement I agree with. The rest of your statements, however, are a huge strawman that none of the women participating in this thread advocate. I was going to dissect some of your more egregious statements, but on the direction of Marley, I will instead try to focus attention on the topic that I was attempting to continue productive discourse with in post 194. > [@randomface](#): > > That’s pretty well unanswered. “Unanswered” in the sense that she did not know now to answer it, but not “unanswered” in the sense of being ignored. Your use of the word in post 211 implies that she ignored you. She did not. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-sexism/655853/220 "2013-04-19T01:01:14Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Says the person who claims that men can’t be the targets of sexism. I’d have to work hard to come up with anything as offensive as that. Says the person who thinks there’s nothing offensive or morally wrong or just freakin’ creepy about secretly filming women who he has sex with so they don’t falsely accuse you of rape, of course. You musta been working mighty damn hard that day. [Link](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=593029) You gotta start from the beginning but it gets “good” after post 20 and post 90 is just…um…it explains Der Trihs’s position on the sexism issue here nicely. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-sexism/655853.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-sexism/655853.md?page=12)