# What is Sexism? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [April 16, 2013, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-sexism/655853 "2013-04-16T18:06:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-sexism/655853/41 "2013-04-16T23:06:46Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > I suppose you could easily click back to the OP and figure it out if you were curious. But since you didn’t do that, nothst is not the thread in question. Actually it is. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-sexism/655853/42 "2013-04-16T23:10:18Z")
My mistake, I read over the OP again and didn’t catch it. But I agree that’s not exactly poisoning the well nor does it excuse the subsequent posts that came much later. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-sexism/655853/43 "2013-04-16T23:12:27Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > The OP said she’s good at attracting “23 year old boys or beta males” that she does not want attention from. I don’t think I agree that that’s anti-male or poisons the well. Neither do I. But then I don’t think calling groups of girls for hysteric harpies or worthless sluts is sexism either. Sometimes it’s just the truth. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-sexism/655853/44 "2013-04-16T23:14:16Z")
I’m really glad we can continue having a grown up conversation about this topic. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-sexism/655853/45 "2013-04-16T23:19:32Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > But then I don’t think calling groups of girls for hysteric harpies or worthless sluts is sexism either. Sometimes it’s just the truth. I disagree, and I don’t think much of the whole “it’s not an insult, it’s the truth” defense. If that were true there would basically be no such thing as an insult because most people mean what they say when they make crass or dismissive comments about other people - or at least they mean those things at the time they say them. In general insulting people is one thing and it starts to look different once you drag gender (or race, ethnicity, and so on) into the discussion. And I think at this point most people agree that you’re probably making a sexist comment if you call someone a slut. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-sexism/655853/46 "2013-04-16T23:21:41Z")
“Sometimes it’s just the truth.” I seriously can’t anymore. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-sexism/655853/47 "2013-04-16T23:23:58Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I’m moving this to ATMB from GD because it’s about the rules and the interpretation of the rules. And since the other thread is so long and so bitter - and since it refers to extensively to other long and vitriolic threads - I’ll try to keep that the meta-sexist commentary out of this thread in its entirety. > [@Rune](#): > > Neither do I. But then I don’t think calling groups of girls for hysteric harpies or worthless sluts is sexism either. Sometimes it’s just the truth. I just want to say good job keeping the meta-sexist commentary out of this thread for exactly 17 whole minutes. Bravo. ---
**Author:** ![Orr\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ee59a6/32.png) [@Orr\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orr_G)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-sexism/655853/48 "2013-04-16T23:24:26Z")
> [@colander](#): > > By your own admission, you are someone who normally does not participate in these kinds of discussions and presumably gives very little thought to the kinds of matters brought up in them. Why, then, should your interpretation of a potentially offensive “joke” be given as much weight as the interpretation of somebody for whom these matters constitute a constant and unavoidable part of their life experience? 😕 > > Frankly, I don’t think the line between “jokes” and deliberate offensiveness is anywhere near as thin as some around here proclaim it to be. Your presumption is not warranted. My argument is not that my interpretation of a joke be given more or less weight than that of anyone else. It is that everyone has a different interpretation of a joke, and precisely for that reason, using a joke as an example is problematic. In my opinion, more problematic than those posters who have been using jokes as examples in these threads seem to realize. I agree that the line between jokes and deliberate offensiveness (when there is a line) is not as thin as some proclaim, but I also think that it is a lot fuzzier than some of the posters in these threads who are relying on those jokes as examples seem to realize. Addressing that more carefully would, IMO, make their overall arguments that use jokes as examples stronger. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-sexism/655853/49 "2013-04-16T23:25:08Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > I just want to say good job keeping the meta-sexist commentary out of this thread for exactly 17 whole minutes. Bravo. But hey, this board doesn’t have a problem with sexism, it just has too many oversensitive whiners, ya know? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-sexism/655853/50 "2013-04-16T23:25:43Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Neither do I. But then I don’t think calling groups of girls for hysteric harpies or worthless sluts is sexism either. Sometimes it’s just the truth. I don’t agree - calling someone a “23 year old boy” is really no different from simply calling them “immature” and so undesireable; “beta male” undesireable in a different way. It lacks the put-down trigger-words of your example. No-one would, I think, object as sexist to a man saying “I hate picking up women in bars - the ones attracted to me are all really immature”. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-sexism/655853/51 "2013-04-16T23:28:26Z")
One behavior I’d like to see moderated is when anyone is called a term of endearment in Great Debates. Its happened to me on several occasions where I’m responded to with some version of “look, sweetie…” Now, generally, me being female and the dismissive endearment coming from a man, its sexists, but I think any dismissive diminutive does not belong in Great Debates. Its a cheap shot. I shouldn’t be called Sweetie and I shouldn’t call male posters “Punkinhead.” I’m not sure that I’ve seen the dismissive diminutive used against a man, and I think its more commonly used against a woman, but it should be used at all. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-sexism/655853/52 "2013-04-16T23:33:39Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > I just want to say good job keeping the meta-sexist commentary out of this thread for exactly 17 whole minutes. Bravo. That’s apparently **Rune** ’s actual opinion, and not the sort of ironic crap I had in mind. ---
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-sexism/655853/53 "2013-04-16T23:34:52Z")
> [@Orr\_G](#): > > Your presumption is not warranted. It’s hardly a presumption on my part when you’ve just said it yourself. [QUOTE=Orr, G.] There is certainly more sexism/misogyny on this board than I had previously been aware of ( **I tend not to read the sorts of threads where those kinds of comments crop up** ). [/QUOTE] Some of us do. > [@](#): > > My argument is not that my interpretation of a joke be given more or less weight than that of anyone else. It is that everyone has a different interpretation of a joke, and precisely for that reason, using a joke as an example is problematic. In my opinion, more problematic than those posters who have been using jokes as examples in these threads seem to realize. It seems to me that by describing the statements in question as “jokes,” you are essentially begging the question. The group of people who the comments are actually aimed at don’t seem to think that they are jokes. To the contrary, the opinions expressed in them seem to all be quite sincere. I fail to see what room there is to term such statements as “jokes” simply because they employ deliberately offensive rhetoric. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-sexism/655853/54 "2013-04-16T23:35:02Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > That’s apparently **Rune** ’s actual opinion, and not the sort of ironic crap I had in mind. Oh well that makes all the difference then, since he’s not only obviously doing it to get a rise, he also really believes it. Carry on! ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-sexism/655853/55 "2013-04-16T23:35:38Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > And I think at this point most people agree that you’re probably making a sexist comment if you call someone a slut. And you don’t think it is sexist to call someone a beta-male? It has all the characteristics. It is derogative. It questions the manhood or worthiness of the individual. It can only be used against men. As an insult I’d consider it at least equal to slut or whore. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-sexism/655853/56 "2013-04-16T23:36:31Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > Oh well that makes all the difference then It actually does make some difference. But I’d rather actually hear about **Rune** ’s opinion from **Rune** instead of speculating about what that opinion is. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-sexism/655853/57 "2013-04-16T23:37:59Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > And you don’t think it is sexist to call someone a beta-male? It has all the characteristics. It is derogative. It questions the manhood or worthiness of the individual. It can only be used against men. As an insult I’d consider it at least equal to slut or whore. Are those people she’s referring to posters on this board? Is her statement intended to insult and upset people on this board? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-sexism/655853/58 "2013-04-16T23:40:54Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > And you don’t think it is sexist to call someone a beta-male? In this particular context, at least? No. > [@](#): > > as an insult I’d consider it at least equal to slut or whore. I don’t think it comes anywhere close. And originally you brought it up to explain **Drunky Smurf** ’s post, which makes even less sense. That post was just a crude driveby taunt (and I was going to edit and add it’s directed at other posters, but **ladyfoxfyre** beat me to it); **MeanOldLady** was making a comment about types of guys she doesn’t like to date. If you’re thinking about sticking around to dig up dodgy equivalences all day, I will tell you know that that’s OK - you can save yourself the trouble because it’s not necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-sexism/655853/59 "2013-04-16T23:47:45Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > Are those people she’s referring to posters on this board? Is her statement intended to insult and upset people on this board? The topic of this thread is “sexism.” Not only sexism against board members. > [@Marley23](#): > > And originally you brought it up to explain **Drunky Smurf** ’s post, which makes even less sense. No I did not. I responded directly to the OP. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-sexism/655853/60 "2013-04-16T23:58:53Z")
> [@colander](#): > > It’s hardly a presumption on my part when you’ve just said it yourself. Your presumtion was that because **Orr, G** doesn’t participate much in these types threads that he doesn’t think much about the subject. You could make the same presumption about me, but you would be wrong. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-sexism/655853.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-sexism/655853.md?page=4)