# What is soooo evil about being a liberal? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 11, 2003, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-soooo-evil-about-being-a-liberal/154304 "2003-02-11T05:58:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Legomancer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/779978/32.png) [@Legomancer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Legomancer)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-soooo-evil-about-being-a-liberal/154304/101 "2003-02-12T23:42:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tygr \* > **I weep for my country’s future when I hear otherwise intelligent-seeming people comparing our leadership system to an inconsequential physical contest, rather than seeing it as the arena for the public exchange of ideas, in which our nation’s ultimate direction will be determined.** Don’t weep for me, I’m just calling 'em like I see 'em. Weep instead, like me, for the society that can’t get its head out of its party-affiliated ass and decide what is best for the country and its citizens rather than what is opposite what the other team says or what will get us more points in Congress. I’m not exaggerating when I say that listening to the election coverage was like listening to SportsCenter - not a word about issues, nothing about voting records, but instead how the stats would fall for each team. That was it. If someone did bother to mention any kind of actual point, it was brought up the way you might talk about why the coach put in this linebacker instead of a different one. You can’t fix a problem until you identify it, and one of our big problems is that our political system HAS become largely a sport. If I’m a Democrat, my main job is to make sure there’s more Democrats than Republicans out there, make sure I protest anything the Republicans do, mock the Republicans, and support the Democrats. It’s got nothing to do with what any of them stand for or have voted for; just whether or not they’re on my team. And vice-versa if I’m a Republican. True, some people still believe in judging the candidates on their platforms and voting records, but those people are few and far between. For most people it’s straight party line, unquestioned. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2003, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-soooo-evil-about-being-a-liberal/154304/102 "2003-02-12T23:49:36Z")
> [@](#): > > In contrast, Liberalism wants to put a lot of the responsibilities of the individual into the hands of the State, freeing people up from such concerns as, oh, worrying about hot coffee spilling into their lap. Heh, heh, heh. I’ll bet you didn’t see this one coming, **SPOOFE**. The famous McDonalds coffee lady was Stella Liebeck. Wanna guess what color jersey she wore, as well as the judge? > [@](#): > > The trial judge, **who, like the Liebecks, was a self-described conservative Republican** , agreed with the liability finding, but a month after the verdict he reduced the punitive damages to $480,000 - three times the compensatory damages. He too wanted to let McDonald’s know that it “was appropriate to punish and deter” its corporate coffee policy. –[cite](http://www.kentlaw.edu/classes/hchapman/torts/sup_mat/index.html?/classes/hchapman/torts/sup_mat/coffee.html) Hee hee hee. _It burns! It burns!_ ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-soooo-evil-about-being-a-liberal/154304/103 "2003-02-13T01:10:52Z")
Comrade **Xeno** The Central Committee has reached a decision as to the poster **Gobear**. He knows too much. All our evil machinations are transparent to him. Take appropriate steps. A black helicopter will, of course, be made available. Yours in revolution, **Elucidator** PS: Who you bringing to the Trotskyist Ball? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-soooo-evil-about-being-a-liberal/154304/104 "2003-02-13T01:14:28Z")
**Sofa King** , didn’t you know? Ms. Liebeck had been demoralized, losing her grip on her sense of right and wrong, after finding out that Bill Clinton got a blowjob. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-soooo-evil-about-being-a-liberal/154304/105 "2003-02-13T04:08:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Ace of Swords \* > \*\*I’m certainly confrontational when an entire class… \*\* What’s with you and the overuse of ‘class’? ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-soooo-evil-about-being-a-liberal/154304/106 "2003-02-13T06:18:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Brutus \* > \*\*A ‘class slur’? :rolleyes: > > I reiterate: Modern liberals are stupid and naive. \*\* I reiterate: That sounds like a class slur. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-soooo-evil-about-being-a-liberal/154304/107 "2003-02-13T13:17:10Z")
Comrade “ **‘luci’** ” All communication from this point should be considered “need to know” only, and should be delivered according to secret protocol. (Please tip the nun who brings you this, btw.) (If you know what I mean, 😉 ) I have almost got the running dog lured in! Soon, I will have his trust and the capitalist lackey will unwittingly become a tool of the revolution! Hold the chopper; send more booze. Power to the peeps xeno PS: I’m bringing the Bush twins. But they’ll be disguised as Jean Kirkpatrick and Liz Dole. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-soooo-evil-about-being-a-liberal/154304/108 "2003-02-13T15:04:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tygr \* > Oh, _RIGHT!!_ :smack: I forgot — it’s not liberals OR conservatives that are evil… > > It’s **CORPORATIONS!!!** sub[/sub] Well hey, I can understand how you would equate “handouts to big corporations are bad” with “corporations are evil.” But this is the sort of broad-brush misinterpretation that partisans on _either_ side do of the other, and is the sort of ignorance we claim to be fighting against. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-soooo-evil-about-being-a-liberal/154304/109 "2003-02-13T15:22:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > But over the past three decades, a sea change has occurred and liberalism has come to stand for reflexive anti-patriotism (all the liberals who blamed 9/11 on American foreign policy and not on the hijackers or bin Laden and who find burning the American flag to be admirable), Luddite economic views (international trade is EEE-vul!), and social and personal irresponsiblity. Oh, really? Can I explain something really simple, **gobear**? Just because there _are_ some lefties who blamed 9/11 on America, or who find burning the American flag admirable, or regard international trade as evil, doesn’t mean that that is representative of liberalism, however much Rush Limbaugh tries to make it sound as if it’s so. This is not true any more than Fred Phelps is representative of conservatism. (Are you ready to hate yourself?) I’m not sure what you mean by “social and personal irresponsibility.” Do you mean we’re for legalization of gay sex in those places where it’s still a crime? I plead guilty. (Of being for legalization, that is; not of engaging in gay sex. Not my cup of tea.) On the topic of 9/11, I would add that if someone wanders a bad neighborhood at night and gets mugged as a result, his friends are going to say, “Why the heck were you walking down there? That was sure dumb!” This does _not_ exculpate the mugger in any way. But it _does_ suggest that one must be cognizant of the risks one is taking, whether the dangers are from natural forces or nasty human beings. Therefore, suggesting that one ought to have pursued a different course so that one didn’t wind up in a bad situation to begin with, which some of us liberals _did_ suggest after 9/11, does _not_ in any way absolve the hijackers or al-Qaeda in general. Except in your mind. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-soooo-evil-about-being-a-liberal/154304/110 "2003-02-13T16:43:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator \* > \*\*Comrade Xeno > > The Central Committee has reached a decision as to the poster Gobear. He knows too much. All our evil machinations are transparent to him. Take appropriate steps. A black helicopter will, of course, be made available. > \*\* (underlining mine). This shows that liberals are naive and stupid. Anyone with half a brain knows committees NEVER actually REACH decisions. Enjoy, Steven PS. And everyone knows the liberal helicopters are pink with large daisies on them. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-soooo-evil-about-being-a-liberal/154304/111 "2003-02-13T17:22:11Z")
> [@](#): > > Do you mean we’re for legalization of gay sex in those places where it’s still a crime? I plead guilty. (Of being for legalization, that is; not of engaging in gay sex. Not my cup of tea.) Hi, remember me? I’m the gay guy–what on earth makes you think I don’t advocate legalization of gay sex? I’m a libertarian, which means that I support individual freedom and reduced government inteference in our lives. What I mean by liberals encouraging social irresponsiblity is, for example the decades of demaning funding for AIDS research, but refusing to discourage promiscuity and unsafe sex, which helped spread the disease. (The resistance to closing bathhouses in SF, for example.) > [@](#): > > Just because there are some lefties who blamed 9/11 on America, or who find burning the American flag admirable, or regard international trade as evil, doesn’t mean that that is representative of liberalism, I’ll inform Susan Sontag, Michael Moore, and Katha Politt, just to name a few of the it’s-America’s-fault crowd, that they are not representative of liberalism, shall I? ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-soooo-evil-about-being-a-liberal/154304/112 "2003-02-13T17:29:55Z")
Emergency posting to Comrade **luci** : Prey has slipped my grasp… Must redouble efforts-- nay, _retriple_ efforts!! Send in Streisand, Sheen and Garofalo, _urgent speed required_… ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-soooo-evil-about-being-a-liberal/154304/113 "2003-02-13T17:31:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\* > I’ll inform Susan Sontag, Michael Moore, and Katha Politt, just to name a few of the it’s-America’s-fault crowd, that they are not representative of liberalism, shall I? \*\* Please do. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-soooo-evil-about-being-a-liberal/154304/114 "2003-02-13T17:45:50Z")
gobear: > [@](#): > > Hi, remember me? I’m the gay guy With all due respect, **gobear** , while it’s true you are _a_ gay guy, I think on this message board, the title of _the_ gay guy referes to **Esprix**. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-soooo-evil-about-being-a-liberal/154304/115 "2003-02-13T17:46:30Z")
Comrade Xeno: By all means send Streisand and Sheen (Charlie, not Martin), but hold the Garofalo. Actually you can send Ivins and Hightower–those are two liberals with whom I agree nearly 100 percent of the time. ---
**Author:** ![Azael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@Azael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Azael)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-soooo-evil-about-being-a-liberal/154304/116 "2003-02-13T17:55:02Z")
Ugh… All you evil conservatives and naive liberals just keep pushing me closer to Libertarianism… I can’t stand the false dichotomy that perpetuates people being pigeonholed into either one team or the other. The truth is that both sides, as they are demonized by the other, are simply extremist elements of what should be complementary philosophies. Most people are somewhere in the middle, and come election time, so are most of the politicians. I just wish we could stop with the name calling long enough to recognise that when we are at each others throats all of the time nothing gets accomplished. Neither side can be completely right and it wouldn’t kill either side to get over their fear of being wrong about something and compromise. I know I am oversimplifying, but as it stands I find something evil about both extremes… a certain lack of honest self-analysis. But that can be the problem with any ideology, people can become so invested in believing or defending it that they are driven to demonize the opposition rather than listen to their best critic. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-soooo-evil-about-being-a-liberal/154304/117 "2003-02-13T17:56:51Z")
Well, unfortunately Ivins is on a different mission of extreme impor— er… hang on a minute… [Aside to comrade **elucidator** : Plot to implicate Bush ranch management in Ebay sale of Columbia parts has been aborted. Call off liberal media.] Um, looks like Molly’s not doing anything at the moment. I’ll send a cab over. ---
**Author:** ![Tygr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/df788c/32.png) [@Tygr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tygr)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-soooo-evil-about-being-a-liberal/154304/118 "2003-02-13T18:22:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by xenophon41 \* > **Oh— good point Tygr about progressive movements of the past becoming status-quo…** Yay! I got complimented in a Pit-debate thread!! Where’s my cookie…? 😃 > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CTB \* > **If you do not like the definition provided by “Xenophon41, CTB, and others”, then please provide your own…** Well, I gave a somewhat over-simplified, bare-bones definition in asking **SPOOFE** for clarification: “My understanding is that Conservatives believe in the power of the individual and the protection of his liberties, and Liberals believe in the power of the State to do the most for the collective good.” IOW, I think that calling one side ‘Progressive’ and the other ‘Not-Progressive’ no longer covers the issues being debated (again, see “vouchers”). > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sofa King \* > **I’m not saying that all Republicans are conservatives, or all conservatives are social conservatives. But like it or not, these guys are in control of Congress, and their strong supporters are in control of the other two branches of government as well. I strongly suspect they think they have a mandate to pursue their moral agenda.** Actually, they have a mandate from a majority of your voting fellow citizens. Perhaps it would be more useful in the long run to convince the PUBLIC of the reasonableness of your positions rather than by trying to sway individual legislators. It has been stated elsewhere, “Ultimately, the voters get what they want.” If you think they are wrong to want what they want, then change their minds! > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SPOOFE \* > \*\*Not backwards, just poorly expressed. It all focuses on how the two ideologies work…The difference lies not in _where_ they want to put the responsibility, but _why_ they want to do it. \*\* UNGH! Grog still not understand! Maybe Grog go listen to Rush. Rush “make complex understandable”. It true because Rush say so. Seriously, I think as far as Conservatives, the state having less responsibility, and therefore being free-er to impose those things… I still disagree (or I still am confused about what you’re saying). Conservatism’s goal is a less-powerful central government. We just don’t have the trust that liberals seem to have that a large central government will always work for the individual’s best interest. **Lego** - you can rail against the two-party-system all you want, but it exists for a reason. The issues today are far too complex — the average citizen hasn’t the time to learn everything relevant about every issue. We can’t make completely informed voting choices. We just have to understand enough about what we want for ourselves and the country to align our ballots with the people who claim to espouse similar values. **RTFirefly** - yeah, that was just a joke, but c’mon, admit it. I swear I have seen you railing against corporations around here. Cite? Um… gosh, look at the timegottagobye! ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-soooo-evil-about-being-a-liberal/154304/119 "2003-02-13T18:35:16Z")
[QUOTE] _Originally posted by **cmkeller** _ > [@](#): > > With all due respect, **gobear** , while it’s true you are _a_ gay guy, I think on this message board, the title of _the_ gay guy referes to **Esprix**. 😉 That’s ok - he didn’t bold it. 😉 And **gobear** , I’m rather aghast at some of your rhetoric in here as well. As a liberal myself, I defy you to point out where I said anyone but the terrorists were responsible for their actions. Esprix [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-soooo-evil-about-being-a-liberal/154304.md?page=5)