# What is superman's immigration status? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 15, 2009, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-supermans-immigration-status/493133 "2009-04-15T01:09:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![straight\_man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straight_man/32/3027_2.png) [@straight\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straight_man)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-supermans-immigration-status/493133/21 "2009-04-15T05:24:11Z")
Serious question: have citizenship or humanity been defined by law as dependent on biological species? That would actually surprise me — one would expect law to follow the ethics of philosophy, which almost universally grant moral status to our sentience. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-supermans-immigration-status/493133/22 "2009-04-15T05:30:06Z")
> [@straight\_man](#): > > one would expect law to follow the ethics of philosophy Only if one didn’t know much about lawyers. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-supermans-immigration-status/493133/23 "2009-04-15T09:27:47Z")
Clark Kent is a natural-born citizen. He was presented to the world as the Kents’ natural child ab initio. They attested to his birth. Superman, OTOH, well, nobody knows, because it’s a secret ID, right? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-supermans-immigration-status/493133/24 "2009-04-15T12:48:13Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Clark Kent is a natural-born citizen. He was presented to the world as the Kents’ natural child ab initio. They attested to his birth. Not unless they’ve changed things. The Kents brought him to an orphanage as a foundling and adopted him a few days later. Since the orphanage had no way of knowing his actual origin, they would have put out paperwork that he was a foundling. They would have assumed he was from the US; for one thing, Smallville is too far from an international border for that to be a serious issue. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-supermans-immigration-status/493133/25 "2009-04-15T13:04:47Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > The real question is, what is the INS going to do about it? Isn’t it CIS now? ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-supermans-immigration-status/493133/26 "2009-04-15T13:27:11Z")
> [@straight\_man](#): > > Serious question: have citizenship or humanity been defined by law as dependent on biological species? That would actually surprise me — one would expect law to follow the ethics of philosophy, which almost universally grant moral status to our sentience. No court on this planet has dealt with the issue, so it’s an open question. However, I think it’s generally agreed that our nearest relatives, the chimps and gorillas are not legal persons. But that’s because their abilities to communicate are significantly less than ours. (On the other hand, a comatose human being is still a person). I suspect that a court faced with an alien species like Superman (or like Ford Prefect) that looked human, and that had a similar intelligence level and ability to communicate, would want to treat them as legal persons – though in many jurisdictions, they’d wait for legislative guidance. However, there’d be a bigger issue if (as is much more likely) the alien species looked nothing at all like us. What would a legal system do with creatures that looked like giant beetles, and that communicated with intricate movements of their antennas? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-supermans-immigration-status/493133/27 "2009-04-15T14:01:35Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Not unless they’ve changed things. The Kents brought him to an orphanage as a foundling and adopted him a few days later. I’m sure I read that they found him just before the snows closed in and presented him as their own in the spring. Maybe that was a ret-con? I see from Wikipedia that they’re about to do another ret-con. ---
**Author:** ![HorseloverFat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8e8cbc/32.png) [@HorseloverFat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HorseloverFat)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-supermans-immigration-status/493133/28 "2009-04-15T14:09:38Z")
_I’m sure I read that they found him just before the snows closed in and presented him as their own in the spring_ If his parents didnt properly present him as a found child then they are committing a crime and Clark’s citizenship would be in question. People try this now and again when they bring illegally adopted children into the states. I see precedent in withholding citizenship and he would probably be an illegal alien. Obviously, he couldnt be shipped back, but he could start applying for asylum. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-supermans-immigration-status/493133/29 "2009-04-15T14:37:51Z")
> [@HorseloverFat](#): > > _I’m sure I read that they found him just before the snows closed in and presented him as their own in the spring_ > > If his parents didnt properly present him as a found child then they are committing a crime and Clark’s citizenship would be in question. People try this now and again when they bring illegally adopted children into the states. I see precedent in withholding citizenship and he would probably be an illegal alien. Obviously, he couldnt be shipped back, but he could start applying for asylum. Superman does not qualify for Asylum - he does not have a legitimate fear of torture or death on returning to his home – his home no longer exists. I reiterate - he is _stateless_ which places him under the UN Convention. Regardless of whether the Kents committed immgration fraud themselves, should Supe’s status as a foundling ever be challenged (and I agree he falls within the foundling statute), the U.S. gov’t would be obliged to treat him as a resident alien (har!) because of his stateless status. ---
**Author:** ![Reno\_Nevada](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Reno\_Nevada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reno_Nevada)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-supermans-immigration-status/493133/30 "2009-04-15T15:14:56Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > However, there’d be a bigger issue if (as is much more likely) the alien species looked nothing at all like us. What would a legal system do with creatures that looked like giant beetles, and that communicated with intricate movements of their antennas? I know a few science fiction stories that address this. The best one that I know of is \*Little Fuzzy \*by H Beam Piper–the climax of the story is a court proceeding to determine if an alien is a sapient, and thus entitled to protection under the law, or not. I think that in all likelihood the courts will have to deal with a lawsuit from a computer program claiming full human rights before they have to deal with intelligent beetles or small fuzzy humanoids, let alone flying humanoids with X-Ray vision. Now that I think about it, a relevant SF story is \*The Bicentennial Man \*by Isaac Asimov. My belief is that the first intelligent computer programs will not find it at all easy to win recognition as “persons.” ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-supermans-immigration-status/493133/31 "2009-04-15T15:44:11Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I’m sure I read that they found him just before the snows closed in and presented him as their own in the spring. Maybe that was a ret-con? I see from Wikipedia that they’re about to do another ret-con. Quite possible a retcon. When I was a lad,\* the story was they went straight to the orphanage. It made the most sense and had the advantage of simplicity – the child would be theirs legally as an adopted foundling. \*I served a term As office boy to an Attorney’s firm. I cleaned the windows and I swept the floor, And I polished up the handle of the big front door. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-supermans-immigration-status/493133/32 "2009-04-15T16:11:04Z")
> [@](#): > > This status can be challenged, but only up until age 18, at which point the citizenship is irrevocable. Since nobody challenged Clark’s citizenship while he was a child, the revelation that he wasn’t born here is irrelevant. And Lex Luthor has been kicking himself ever since. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-supermans-immigration-status/493133/33 "2009-04-15T16:12:16Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I’m sure I read that they found him just before the snows closed in and presented him as their own in the spring. Maybe that was a ret-con? I see from Wikipedia that they’re about to do another ret-con. That was John Byrne’s 1987 retcon. Instead of the whole orphanage thing, the Kents find the rocketship on or near their land, grab the newborn (the rocket contained Kal-El’s “birthing matrix”, the Kryptonian equivalent of an artificial womb[sup]\*[/sup] and apparently standard practice in their culture) and then hunker down for a five-month blizzard[sup]\*\*[/sup] that isolates them. By the time they emerge, they pass young Clark off as their own child. What changes have been made since, I couldn’t say. The wiki page on “Ma and Pa Kent” offers up details, some of which I contributed. [sup]\*[/sup] This later proves significant in an imaginary story about Superman running for president. Since he emerged from his birthing matrix in Kansas, he meets the standard for having been born in the Unites States. [sup]\*\*[/sup] The blizzard is eventually revealed to be the work of a group of alien androids called the Manhunters. ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-supermans-immigration-status/493133/34 "2009-04-15T16:32:11Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Quite possible a retcon. When I was a lad,\* the story was they went straight to the orphanage. It made the most sense and had the advantage of simplicity – the child would be theirs legally as an adopted foundling. Slightly related question - would the orphanage take any sort of steps to find a foundlings’ birth parents before allowing the finders to adopt? Obviously with Superman the parents wouldn’t be found, for several reasons, but I’m curious about the more general case. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-supermans-immigration-status/493133/35 "2009-04-15T16:37:50Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by **Bryan Ekers** > That was John Byrne’s 1987 retcon. Superman’s birthday is traditionally given as February 29, on the leap year 36-39 years prior to whenever the story is published. So, for a story published in 1987, he would have been born 02/29/1948. So in 1981, he would have been in the USA for 33 years, making him eligible for Reagan’s illegal alien amnesty. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-supermans-immigration-status/493133/36 "2009-04-15T16:45:38Z")
> [@chrisk](#): > > Slightly related question - would the orphanage take any sort of steps to find a foundlings’ birth parents before allowing the finders to adopt? Obviously with Superman the parents wouldn’t be found, for several reasons, but I’m curious about the more general case. In various accounts, the orphanage is glad to get rid of him because he keeps breaking the furniture. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-supermans-immigration-status/493133/37 "2009-04-15T19:53:06Z")
Yes – the broken furniture was in the original origin story. There is a long history of foundlings in Western culture. They used to be left off at churches (some had special revolving doors where you’d put the baby on a turntable and be able to swing him inside). No one went looking for the mother (part of the point was, they wouldn’t, so the mother could remain anonymous). Next to Superman, probably the best known foundling in comics was Skeezix Wallet ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-supermans-immigration-status/493133/38 "2009-04-15T20:21:12Z")
More recent origins have done away with the superbaby and postulated that Clark’s powers didn’t manifest until he was past puberty. Seems that some editors at DC hated the whole Superboy schtick. I’m not sure exactly what origin myth is currently canon, but it will probably change by next week anyhow. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-supermans-immigration-status/493133/39 "2009-04-16T04:28:27Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > The real question is, what is the INS going to do about it? Nothing, since INS no longer exists. It was replaced by the USCIS. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-supermans-immigration-status/493133/40 "2009-04-16T10:00:30Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > [sup]\*[/sup] This later proves significant in an imaginary story about Superman running for president. Since he emerged from his birthing matrix in Kansas, he meets the standard for having been born in the Unites States. Interestingly, there was a silver age imaginary story/Jimmy Olsen fantasy that has Superman as president. It ends with Superman reminding Jimmy that it was just a dream, because, as Superman wasn’t born in the United States, he’s not eligable. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-supermans-immigration-status/493133.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-supermans-immigration-status/493133.md?page=3)