# What is the 4th-best TV series ever? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 2, 2016, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-best-tv-series-ever/764779 "2016-09-02T14:13:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-best-tv-series-ever/764779/21 "2016-09-02T17:16:00Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > But you have to consider it as a whole body of work, not just individual episodes. IMHO, if you have to watch the whole thing, sequentially, to appreciate a TV series, it’s not playing the same game as an episodic series. They should be separate categories. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_John\_Marcej](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Richard\_John\_Marcej](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_John_Marcej)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-best-tv-series-ever/764779/22 "2016-09-02T17:22:53Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > IMHO, if you have to watch the whole thing, sequentially, to appreciate a TV series, it’s not playing the same game as an episodic series. They should be separate categories. Exactly. New drama series are novels, each episode just a chapter from the book. Look at Season two of _Breaking Bad_ for an example. The beginning of each episode is a “flash forward” to what’s going to happen in the season’s final episode, inferring that Season two is one huge story. Is that good? Is that bad? Does that make modern dramas “superior” to older dramas? Or are they two completely different forms. ---
**Author:** ![bobo\_blesinger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecae2f/32.png) [@bobo\_blesinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobo_blesinger)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-best-tv-series-ever/764779/23 "2016-09-02T17:33:16Z")
She’s the Sheriff, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-best-tv-series-ever/764779/24 "2016-09-02T17:34:03Z")
Television is better now. There’s no reason whatsoever that the best series should be evenly distributed in time. Probably should expect it to be skewed towards more recent shows since the writers and directors have learned lessons from earlier. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-best-tv-series-ever/764779/25 "2016-09-02T17:56:26Z")
> [@bobo\_blesinger](#): > > She’s the Sheriff, of course. Excuse me, but you misspelled _The Governor and J.J._ ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-best-tv-series-ever/764779/26 "2016-09-02T18:00:26Z")
No love for the classics? Twilight Zone and The Fugitive would be on my lists. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-best-tv-series-ever/764779/27 "2016-09-02T18:14:25Z")
> [@Richard\_John\_Marcej](#): > > Exactly. New drama series are novels, each episode just a chapter from the book. Look at Season two of _Breaking Bad_ for an example. The beginning of each episode is a “flash forward” to what’s going to happen in the season’s final episode, inferring that Season two is one huge story. > > Is that good? Is that bad? > Does that make modern dramas “superior” to older dramas? > Or are they two completely different forms. They are different forms and the modern show is the superior form. It’s long form cinema as opposed to just a series of episodes where the trick is to continue the string forever without anything changing too much. Deadwood Justified Six Feet Under Game of Thrones Boardwalk Empire All better than older shows with very few exceptions. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-best-tv-series-ever/764779/28 "2016-09-02T18:21:25Z")
Also I highly recommend “The Leftovers.” I think it’s going to be the most creative show for the time being. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-best-tv-series-ever/764779/29 "2016-09-02T18:35:25Z")
“ER” was damned good, and predates today’s Golden Age of TV. It aired five years before “The Sopranos” premiered. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-best-tv-series-ever/764779/30 "2016-09-02T18:40:26Z")
Madmen should have made the top 3. Weird list. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-best-tv-series-ever/764779/31 "2016-09-02T18:41:06Z")
_West Wing_ is out: the OP wanted dramas. Though, in my opinion, it was one of the best sitcoms ever – at least for 1-4, 5-7 kind of faded in that. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-best-tv-series-ever/764779/32 "2016-09-02T18:55:58Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > “ER” was damned good, and predates today’s Golden Age of TV. It aired five years before “The Sopranos” premiered. I would agree except it went on 5 seasons too long. At least. A series can definitely hurt it’s legacy by staying on too long. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_John\_Marcej](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Richard\_John\_Marcej](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_John_Marcej)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-best-tv-series-ever/764779/33 "2016-09-02T19:04:21Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > They are different forms and the modern show is the superior form. It’s long form cinema as opposed to just a series of episodes where the trick is to continue the string forever without anything changing too much. > > Deadwood > Justified > Six Feet Under > Game of Thrones > Boardwalk Empire > > All better than older shows with very few exceptions. But you miss my point. We’re talking TV shows, not cinema. Films are meant to be watched in one setting. One long story with a beginning, middle and end. Television shows are meant to be watched in spurts. One hour here, a half hour there. If it takes a creator 13 episodes to tell one complete story, one long drama, that’s no longer a TV show. That’s one hell of a long movie. Some creators in the past were able to tell long, over reaching stories as part of an hour drama, as sub plots within the show’s hour. Look back at _Hill Street Blues_ or _St. Elsewhere_ for example. Each episode can stand on their own, but they had sub plots that formed a connecting storyline over several episodes, if not the full season. They were hour long, once a week dramatic TV shows. Calling modern dramas “Superior” simply because they’ve trashed the weekly hour format is wrong IMO. It’s a new form. Not better, not worse. If I want to enjoy _Breaking Bad_ for example, can I simply turn on episode 4 of season 3 and enjoy it as much as someone who’s been watching it since the pilot? Of course not. Does that make it worse than let’s say _Law & Order_ which can be viewed at anytime. No. Does it’s over reaching storyline make it superior? No again. It makes it an entirely new form of drama but not a superior one. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-best-tv-series-ever/764779/34 "2016-09-02T19:25:42Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > This poll is way too skewed towards modern shows. For example how can _I Love Lucy_ not be in the discussion? Because the show sucked? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-best-tv-series-ever/764779/35 "2016-09-02T19:39:39Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Leaving out comedies means my list would be a slim one, since I think the over-whelming majority of TV drama is totally uninteresting. Please feel free to list you top comedies then! But will you stipulate that _Breaking Bad_ and _Orange is Black_ are in the select minority of interesting drama\> And doesn’t _Orange is Black_ qualify as comedy, at least in some perverse sense? > [@Richard\_John\_Marcej](#): > > Now I’ve watched and am a fan of _The Sopranos_, _Breaking Bad_ and _The Wire_, they’re excellent shows. But they have the **“advantage”** of: > • not being on an over the air network, where restrictions are much, much, tighter > • two of them never had to worry about commercial breaks > • they had EASY seasons. Didn’t have to start every year in September and produce a LOT of episodes each year. > > … > New drama series are novels, each episode just a chapter from the book. Than you for articulating why the modern dramas are better than the old ones. > [@Richard\_John\_Marcej](#): > > … I always come back to the same choice. > The Best TV series ever is… > _The Twilight Zone_ (orginal) Yes, I forgot this one. Or rather haven’t watched it for 50 years. ☹ Maybe I should find a way to rewatch this series! There was also an each-episode-is-standalone-short where Richard Boone was a regular actor; it was also good. But this is a different genre from the “TV series with on-going cast assignment.” > [@drad\_dog](#): > > They are different forms and the modern show is the superior form. It’s long form cinema as opposed to just a series of episodes where the trick is to continue the string forever without anything changing too much. > > Deadwood > Justified > Six Feet Under > Game of Thrones > Boardwalk Empire > > All better than older shows with very few exceptions. _Game of Thrones_ I watched part of one episode. I’d probably like it a lot if I really got into it, but it might take much concentration getting started — familiarizing myself with the culture. With my selections, _all set in contemporary America_, immersion is immediate. I enjoyed _Justified_ and _Boardwalk Empire_, but they are inferior to my top choices because the characters are less interesting(_) and less likable. The same may be true of Deadwood. (_ - The villains in Justified were interesting; that show could have been salvaged with just 1 or 2 interesting lawman. Whatshisname didn’t turn me on.) I thought _Six Feet Under_ was done very well, but the plots, characters and dialog are less exciting than with, e.g. crime drama. > [@RickJay](#): > > “ER” was damned good, and predates today’s Golden Age of TV. It aired five years before “The Sopranos” premiered. I _did_ mention _ER_ as a top candidate in OP. OTOH, since _Hill Street Blues_ was mentioned: On rewatch Hill Street will be seen as stilted, almost slapstick or vaudevillian, compared with modern TV drama. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-best-tv-series-ever/764779/36 "2016-09-02T19:50:05Z")
If the list were to include comedies, I should like to nominate _House_. Its primary plot hour lines were fairly formulaic, but the _leitmotif_ material made the show very watchable. And while the underlying story arcs shaped a larger story, as I recall, they were placed into the episodes in a way that could allow the viewer to watch individual episodes without feeling too excluded by having missed the longer story line. As far as pure comedy, the apex has to be _Coupling_, which pasted on a fourth season that was still as high quality as what went before. Yes, I get that British television is not included, but good stuff ought to get proper credit. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-best-tv-series-ever/764779/37 "2016-09-02T19:58:16Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > They are different forms and the modern show is the superior form. Yeah, well, that’s just, like, your opinion, man! But seriously, debates about what art form is “superior” is just unsubstantiated intellectualized wanking meant to bolster one’s personal preferences . . . well, intellectual wanking on a higher level than ranking art within a form. 😉 Which is the superior art form, prose or poetry? Which is the superior art form, short stories or novels? Or essay writing? Or ? You might like long-form TV drama better than other styles, but what makes them “better”? The author of this book and you and others in this thread have come up with an arbitrary list of criteria for “good” television that are synonymous with the definition of a particular style. Congratulations. I’m not sure what makes “long form cinema”, as you say, inherently better than fascinating, thought-provoking, funny, irreverent, compelling or emotional series of shorter stories. Because episodic TV can be all of those things, just as serial TV can. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-best-tv-series-ever/764779/38 "2016-09-02T20:00:33Z")
Dramas only? Lessee… _Star Trek: The Next Generation Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Hill Street Blues The West Wing Game of Thrones_ Comedies only: _Seinfeld Friends Frasier Big Bang Theory The Simpsons_ So, _The West Wing_ or _Big Bang Theory_. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-best-tv-series-ever/764779/39 "2016-09-02T20:07:43Z")
Even speaking as someone who prefers the modern serialized format, I’ll still say that M_A_S\*H deserves to be on this list. And just looking at science fiction, _Babylon 5_ was better than any iteration of _Star Trek_. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-best-tv-series-ever/764779/40 "2016-09-02T20:23:48Z")
I object to the OP’s criteria that a series have more than 2 seasons. Almost all Japanese series have exactly two seasons, because they plot out a 2 season story arc, tell that story arc, and quit. And that’s just better. LOST, for example, might have been a great show if they’d actually plotted the thing out and finished it. David Lynch’s upcoming Twin Peaks series will probably be 1 season, but it may be the best TV series ever made (probably not, but hopefully). Japan would win this battle, for the sheer fact that they’ve been doing good TV for longer than the US has and that the US still hasn’t discovered how to plot TV shows. Deadwood and Breaking Bad are great TV, but so are Cowboy Bebop, The Hakkenden, Key: The Metal Idol, Evangelion, etc. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-best-tv-series-ever/764779.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-best-tv-series-ever/764779.md?page=3)