# What is the 4th-best TV series ever? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 2, 2016, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-best-tv-series-ever/764779 "2016-09-02T14:13:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2016, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-best-tv-series-ever/764779/81 "2016-09-07T09:40:27Z")
I see not a single soul has agreed with my nomination of _Orange Black_. :eek: :smack: Let me defend my choice; tell me where I’m wrong or tasteless. First, I’m not enthusiastic about the sex scenes, nor by any preachy or “recreational outrage” aspect of the depiction of prison life. For me this is just a background environment that allows the interesting and exciting stories to develop. The plot lines develop perfectly, not too fast, not too slow. The scripts and acting are superb. Yes, it is often caricature or melodrama, but that’s a characteristic of much good art. I wasted hours watching Season 1 of _Rectify_ (which gets the same 4-star IMDB rating as _Orange_), which ended with seven threads dangling. They must have wanted me to come back for Season 2, but not a single one of the dangling threads had any interest for me. All I wanted was to unwatch the show. **But Orange Season 4, has left me desperately hungry for Season 5.** (When is it going to start? :rolleyes: ) I almost want to find a scene on YouTube, or even type up dialog from a memorable scene, but it would miss the point. A scene out of context would be baffling, not impressive. It’s the _totality_ of the show, as the viewer gradually builds up interest and empathy for the characters, that makes it so outstanding. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2016, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-best-tv-series-ever/764779/82 "2016-09-07T13:48:41Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > …(I direct you attention toward the Hon. Francis Urquhart)… Nitpick: the Chief Whip is almost invariably a member of the Privy Council, and thus entitled to the prefix “Right Honourable.” ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2016, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-best-tv-series-ever/764779/83 "2016-09-07T16:53:59Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I see not a single soul has agreed with my nomination of _Orange Black_. :eek: :smack: Let me defend my choice; tell me where I’m wrong or tasteless. > > First, I’m not enthusiastic about the sex scenes, nor by any preachy or “recreational outrage” aspect of the depiction of prison life. For me this is just a background environment that allows the interesting and exciting stories to develop. The plot lines develop perfectly, not too fast, not too slow. The scripts and acting are superb. Yes, it is often caricature or melodrama, but that’s a characteristic of much good art. > > I wasted hours watching Season 1 of _Rectify_ (which gets the same 4-star IMDB rating as _Orange_), which ended with seven threads dangling. They must have wanted me to come back for Season 2, but not a single one of the dangling threads had any interest for me. All I wanted was to unwatch the show. > > **But Orange Season 4, has left me desperately hungry for Season 5.** (When is it going to start? :rolleyes: ) > > I almost want to find a scene on YouTube, or even type up dialog from a memorable scene, but it would miss the point. A scene out of context would be baffling, not impressive. It’s the _totality_ of the show, as the viewer gradually builds up interest and empathy for the characters, that makes it so outstanding. Were you disappointed in season 2? I was and I don’t think it ever got back to season 1 quality. If you haven’t seen weeds you should check it out. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2016, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-best-tv-series-ever/764779/84 "2016-09-07T17:16:43Z")
If we’re excluding shows that have run for fewer than 3 seasons (Firefly, Better Call Saul, Fargo, My So Called Life), and shows that are still airing, so that we can’t judge how good they’ll “end up” (The Americans), then I think all of my top picks have alrady been mentioned. Here’s a list of the top-rated TV shows, based on user votes, from [IMDB](http://www.imdb.com/chart/toptv/). It has The Wire at #5, Breaking Bad at #3, and Sopranos at #9. (#1 is Band of Brothers, which only ran for one season, and #2 is Planet Earth, which also only ran for one season, and is also clearly an entirely different kind of thing.) Only three other shows that fit the OP’s criteria of being a scripted show that ran for at least 3 seasons are in the top 10: Game of Thrones at #4 (and while I love love LOVE GoT, I think that’s higher than it deserves, particularly after its most recent season), Sherlock at #10 (and while I enjoy Sherlock, it no way deserves to be that high) and Rick and Morty at #7 (really? anyone thing it really deserves to be that high? I’ve heard good things and watched the pilot but wasn’t particularly impressed.). ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2016, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-best-tv-series-ever/764779/85 "2016-09-07T17:49:52Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > …Only three other shows that fit the OP’s criteria of being a scripted show that ran for at least 3 seasons are in the top 10: Game of Thrones at #4 (and while I love love LOVE GoT, I think that’s higher than it deserves, particularly after its most recent season), Sherlock at #10 (and while I enjoy Sherlock, it no way deserves to be that high) and Rick and Morty at #7 (really? anyone thing it really deserves to be that high? I’ve heard good things and watched the pilot but wasn’t particularly impressed.). I like all three of those shows too, for very different reasons, and I agree that they probably shouldn’t be ranked so high. They benefit, I’m sure, from being so fresh (between seasons now but still being produced) in the minds of those who voted. ---
**Author:** ![Washoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecae2f/32.png) [@Washoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washoe)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-best-tv-series-ever/764779/86 "2016-09-08T02:34:04Z")
This is a really good question. I fully agree that _BB_, _Sopranos_, and _Wire_ are absolutely and indisputably the three best television dramas of all time. But picking contenders for spots four and five is a real toughie. Part of the problem is that the top three are so far beyond what has ever been televised that everything else, no matter how good, pales by comparison. _Mad Men_ is certainly deserving of consideration. If I had a gun to my head are were forced to pick a number four _tout de suite_, I would be inclined to say either _Mad Men_ or _Six Feet Under_. But there are so many other shows which are equally worthy of consideration: _M_A_S_H\*\*, _The Shield_, _St. Elsewhere_, _OITNB_, even _The Good Wife_. These are mere examples; the list would be quite lengthy. If I were to apply the following criterion—“what show could I binge-watch the entire series of in a month’s time or less, more than once in a calendar year, and not get tired of it,” only a two or three shows would be a possibility. _The Good Wife_ is definitely one of them, and if I were to extend the considerations to include sitcoms, _maybe_ _HIMYM_. That one ran for quite a while, though. One bingefest a year would be doable, but I’d likely balk at two. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-best-tv-series-ever/764779/87 "2016-09-08T06:48:28Z")
> [@Washoe](#): > > This is a really good question. I fully agree that _BB_, _Sopranos_, and _Wire_ are absolutely and indisputably the three best television dramas of all time. But picking contenders for spots four and five is a real toughie. There does seem to be a strong consensus about this much! I’d never heard of _Weeds_ but am going to start watching it very soon. I also hope to rewatch _Twilight Zone_ now, 50 years later. :eek: I watched most of _Good Wife_ and found it to be a _very major disappointment_. Why? The plots are not as interesting and suspenseful as one gets with crime drama (or _ER_ or _West Wing_) but most important to me is that _ **most of the characters are neither likable nor interesting** _. (In fact I find most of the main Good Wife roles to be severely _ **un** _likable.) But only one Doper has addressed _Orange is the New Black_ specifically. I wonder if many of you just haven’t watched it. I’m convinced it belongs in the select company of BB, Wire, Sopranos — it may even be the best of all! I’m not articulate about my own taste; I hoped one of _you_ could explain _ **why** _ I like _Orange_ so much. I keep coming back to: “The acting is superb. The characters are interesting and likable.” Even Sam Healy — you start out despising the guy but by the end of Season 4 feel huge pity for him. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-best-tv-series-ever/764779/88 "2016-09-08T10:35:50Z")
So I guess we’re not supposed to consider shows that have only run… what is it… less than three seasons? Fair enough. But I want to mention a couple shows that are, IMO, right up there with the better/best shows of the last decade. I do this not to opine that either is the #4 best TV show ever (they haven’t been around long enough to know for sure), but rather to just give them a shout out because they are quality. One was already briefly mentioned in this thread: _ **Better Call Saul** _. The other is HBO’s\*\*\* Vinyl\*\*\*. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-best-tv-series-ever/764779/89 "2016-09-08T16:37:29Z")
I’ll add _Vinyl_ to my list of shows to try. I agree that _Better Call Saul_ is good (though not in Top Ten category IMO) BUT … do you agree that without _BB_ as back story (front story?), watching _BCS_ by itself would be completely mystifying? Aren’t the connections to _BB_ the major reason for _BCS_ specialness? ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-best-tv-series-ever/764779/90 "2016-09-08T17:14:59Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > But only one Doper has addressed _Orange is the New Black_ specifically. I wonder if many of you just haven’t watched it. I’m convinced it belongs in the select company of BB, Wire, Sopranos — it may even be the best of all! I thought the first season of OitNB was very good, but it has gone down in quality each season since then. (Haven’t seen season 4 yet.) > [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > One was already briefly mentioned in this thread: _ **Better Call Saul** _. > > The other is HBO’s\*\*\* Vinyl\*\*\*. Better Call Saul is very good. I found Vinyl to be pretentious and tedious; almost unwatchable. I did watch every episode because I love both Juno Temple and Olivia Wilde, but it was a struggle. It felt like putting “I’d watch her read the phone book” to a real-life test. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-best-tv-series-ever/764779/91 "2016-09-08T17:21:00Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > So I guess we’re not supposed to consider shows that have only run… what is it… less than three seasons? > > Fair enough. But I want to mention a couple shows that are, IMO, right up there with the better/best shows of the last decade. I do this not to opine that either is the #4 best TV show ever (they haven’t been around long enough to know for sure), but rather to just give them a shout out because they are quality. > > One was already briefly mentioned in this thread: _ **Better Call Saul** _. > > The other is HBO’s\*\*\* Vinyl\*\*\*. I think Saul is being enjoyed and watched closely (By me certainly) but is not being mentioned because it is taking it’s time to develop it’s relationship with it’s parent show. I think sometimes as I’m watching that it could be moving faster certainly. Anyone who hasn’t seen weeds, I envy bigly. I put it up there with Dick Van Dyke, Barney Miller, and the greats, for comedy, and breaking bad for story and addictiveness. I cried watching the finale. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-best-tv-series-ever/764779/92 "2016-09-08T18:43:21Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I’ll add _Vinyl_ to my list of shows to try. > > I agree that _Better Call Saul_ is good (though not in Top Ten category IMO) BUT … do you agree that without _BB_ as back story (front story?), watching _BCS_ by itself would be completely mystifying? Aren’t the connections to _BB_ the major reason for _BCS_ specialness? I don’t think so, no. For the most part “Better Call Saul” is a perfectly understandable standalone story. Once in a great while, it has a flash-forward to Jimmy/Saul in his low end life after leaving Albuquerque, but that would work fine - if in a different way - without “Breaking Bad.” You’d know his lawyerin’ days were numbered, you just didn’t know why. You’d be exchanging tragedy for mystery. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-best-tv-series-ever/764779/93 "2016-09-08T19:53:37Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I agree that _Better Call Saul_ is good (though not in Top Ten category IMO) BUT … do you agree that without _BB_ as back story (front story?), watching _BCS_ by itself would be completely mystifying? Aren’t the connections to _BB_ the major reason for _BCS_ specialness? I think this is true. Some have said that you don’t need to have seen BB to watch Better Call Saul. I suppose you could, but you’re right–it’s knowing the backstory that really makes the show click. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-best-tv-series-ever/764779.md?page=4)