# what is the 4th column in a hockey teams record **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 9, 2003, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-column-in-a-hockey-teams-record/167645 "2003-04-09T21:25:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![squid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@squid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squid)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-column-in-a-hockey-teams-record/167645/1 "2003-04-09T21:25:19Z")
I cant seem to find this but what is the 4th column of a hockey teams record. I know the first 3 are wins, losses and ties. What’s up with the 4ht column? eh? ---
**Author:** ![Cerowyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/82dd89/32.png) [@Cerowyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerowyn)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-column-in-a-hockey-teams-record/167645/2 "2003-04-09T21:33:51Z")
The columns are: wins, losses, ties and over-time losses. If the score is tied at the end of regulation, both teams are guarenteed at least a single point for a tie. Therefore, to calculate the number of points a team has, you need to use the following formula: wins\*2 + ties + overtime losses ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-column-in-a-hockey-teams-record/167645/3 "2003-04-09T21:58:43Z")
The fifth column in the standings refers to the number of spies on the team. ---
**Author:** ![squid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@squid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squid)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-column-in-a-hockey-teams-record/167645/4 "2003-04-09T21:59:35Z")
Cerowyn, Am i correct here…a win is 2 points, a tie is 1. So if after 2 games i have 1 win and 1 tie i have 3 points. On my 3rd game i lose in OT. I receive 1 point for that loss? Is there any proposal to eliminate the tie and keep playing OT’s until there is a winner as they do in the play offs? I went to a hockey game while on vacation this year in Dallas (vs. Detroit) and came away dissapointed at having to leave the game with it at a tie. ---
**Author:** ![dead0man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/edb3f5/32.png) [@dead0man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dead0man)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-column-in-a-hockey-teams-record/167645/5 "2003-04-09T22:34:14Z")
AFAIK its been discussed from time to time. Usually somebody wants overtime ties to be decided by a shootout. My guess is that it is shot down because of tradition. > [@](#): > > Am i correct here…a win is 2 points, a tie is 1. So if after 2 games i have 1 win and 1 tie i have 3 points. On my 3rd game i lose in OT. I receive 1 point for that loss? You are correct. ---
**Author:** ![kylen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@kylen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kylen)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-column-in-a-hockey-teams-record/167645/6 "2003-04-09T22:51:09Z")
The OT loss is only for regular season. Up until recently it was 5-on-5 for 5 minutes in OT. No points for either team until OT ended. The problem with that was that teams who needed a point (especially as the regular season was winding down) would play to preserve the tie. Not very exciting hockey. So the NHL decided that they would switch the regular season tie-breaker format. Now, if the game is tied after regulation time, each team gets 1 point in the standings. Guaranteed. In OT, the teams are pared down to 4-on-4, and if one team scores a goal in the extra 5 minute OT period, then they get one extra point for the win. The idea being that OT becomes watchable for fans, as opposed to clutch-and-grab-we-need-the-points. For playoffs, the format is more like the OP suggested. Extra time (full 20 minute periods) until a goal is scored. Some games have gone 7 to 8 periods (4 to 5 extra periods) before they are decided. That’s hockey. A shoot-out is used in international play, and in tournaments, mostly b/c of time constraints and the fact that teams might have to play several games in a weekend. But for the regular season in the NHL, the 4-on-4 OT seems to work, and at least makes the last 5 minutes worth watching. ---
**Author:** ![whitetho](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whitetho/32/1059_2.png) [@whitetho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whitetho)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-column-in-a-hockey-teams-record/167645/7 "2003-04-09T22:53:05Z")
Trivia question: During a regular season game, how can a team go into overtime, but end up receiving no points? ---
**Author:** ![kylen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@kylen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kylen)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-column-in-a-hockey-teams-record/167645/8 "2003-04-09T23:09:36Z")
Is there some disqualification clause here, **whiteho** , 'cause otherwise you got me! ---
**Author:** ![Lostboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Lostboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lostboy)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-column-in-a-hockey-teams-record/167645/9 "2003-04-09T23:11:17Z")
> [@](#): > > Trivia question: During a regular season game, how can a team go into overtime, but end up receiving no points? If a team pulls their goaltender for an extra player during the overtime, and the other team scores in the empty net, the losing team gets no points ---
**Author:** ![kylen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@kylen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kylen)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-column-in-a-hockey-teams-record/167645/10 "2003-04-09T23:12:32Z")
hee, hee, that should read **whitetho**. Must be the Jenna Jameson thread distracting me 😉 ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2003, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-column-in-a-hockey-teams-record/167645/11 "2003-04-10T00:10:05Z")
The LA Kings got no points in an OT game this year. They had to win or be eliminated from the playoffs so they pulled the goalie against Columbus I believe. They lost. It was a nice try however. The Kings were a real longshot to make the playoffs at that time anyway. ---
**Author:** ![NoGoodNamesLeft](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8797f3/32.png) [@NoGoodNamesLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoGoodNamesLeft)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2003, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-column-in-a-hockey-teams-record/167645/12 "2003-04-10T16:44:43Z")
> [@](#): > > Usually somebody wants overtime ties to be decided by a shootout. My guess is that it is shot down because of tradition. Tradition? 2 referrees…video replay…4 on 4 Overtime…3rd jerseys…renaming the ‘Campbell’ and ‘Wales’ conference as ‘East’ and ‘West’ (I won’t even mention the divisions)…15 second face-offs… I’d say tradition is long since dead in Betteman’s NHL. Ovetime is fine the way it is, anyway. If you’re going to change anything it should be: -Lose the redline. -The bluelines should be as thin as the goal line. -Add touch-up offside. -Modify icing: If the puck bounces off the back boards and caroms back outside the goal line, icing is waived off. -take the linesmen off the ice. Sit them in a seat on the blueline like a tennis judge. -Referrees should have authority over plays in their own zone. Nothing is more frustrating than a ref calling a penalty from 75 feet away, when the ref 4 feet away didn’t. Refs should only be able to call penalties from the boards to the opposite blueline (share the neutral zone) in thier end of the rink. And, oh yeah ////LET’S GO ISLANDERS!!! ---
**Author:** ![CuriousCanuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@CuriousCanuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CuriousCanuck)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2003, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-column-in-a-hockey-teams-record/167645/13 "2003-04-10T17:21:06Z")
[From Bob McKenzie (TSN.ca) - an article about the perils of the guaranteed extra point](http://www.tsn.ca/main_story.asp?id=36427) > [@](#): > > Now, we’re dealing in a purely hypothetical situation, but it’s one that could legitimately occur in any season. Let’s say, for argument’s sake, we’re going into the final weekend of this regular season with the following scenario. > > The Isles, with one game left against Carolina, sit in eighth place with 82 points and 33 wins. The Rangers are next with 81 points and 33 wins and Montreal is right behind them with 80 points and 32 wins. But the Habs and Rangers play their final game against each other, a day before Carolina and the Isles. > > Obviously, Montreal wants to beat the Rangers and get into the playoffs. But - and here’s the rub - if Montreal beats the Rangers in regulation time, Montreal wouldn’t make the playoffs. > > A Montreal win over the Rangers in regulation time would create a two-way tie between the Habs and Islanders. Both teams would have the same number of wins, assuming the Isles lose their final game of the season to Carolina. The next tiebreaker, after wins, is head-to-head record and the Isles were 3-1-0-0 against Montreal. > > So the trick for the Habs is to manipulate the standings to their advantage. And it can be done…by not winning against the Rangers in regulation time, but winning in overtime. Look what happens because of the loser point. Montreal, the Isles and Rangers all end up with 82 points and 33 wins. The Rangers’ overtime loss and Montreal’s win creates the three-way tie. And guess what? Montreal would win the tiebreaker by virtue of a better overall head-to-head record against the Rangers and Isles. I have never liked the bonus point for the win in O/T. Finally, a legitimate gripe as to why. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![hockeynut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c68b51/32.png) [@hockeynut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hockeynut)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2003, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-column-in-a-hockey-teams-record/167645/14 "2003-04-10T20:15:42Z")
As a long time hockey fan, I’d like to see a shootout to resolve ties during the regular season. It works fine for international hockey and we could get rid of both the T and OTL column in the standings. But don’t mess with the playoffs. Sudden death all the way… ---
**Author:** ![DaveX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/96bed5/32.png) [@DaveX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaveX)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2003, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-4th-column-in-a-hockey-teams-record/167645/15 "2003-04-10T20:44:17Z")
Chiming in against a shoot-out. But the standings now are a convoluted mess. How about a 10 minute overtime (5 is too short), and assign 3 points for a win, one for a tie… that gives you the incentive (an extra point) to play for the win, rather than just playing not to lose. Oh yeah, like hockeynut said, sudden death all the way in the playoffs.