# What is the actual evidence against Dorner? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 11, 2013, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-actual-evidence-against-dorner/649938 "2013-02-11T03:48:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-actual-evidence-against-dorner/649938/21 "2013-02-13T15:57:12Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > I think the speculation of suicide is based on the (apparent) single gunshot that occurred after the police (apparently) used deadly force in the form of fire to end the threat to their lives. But for the use of deadly force the threat has to be immediate (i.e.“he is pointing a gun at me.”) not potential (“He has a gun and he has killed before, he might shoot, so shoot him in the back.”). The real question is where fire falls in the spectrum of “deadly force”. If he could walk out unharmed (??) then probably not considered “deadly”. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-actual-evidence-against-dorner/649938/22 "2013-02-14T21:03:03Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Color me confused here. Did you not understand the dude asserted that he was disciplined, not because of his own misdeeds, but because of what he charges are “wrong-doing and racism” on the part of the LAPD? I don’t understand what you don’t understand. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-actual-evidence-against-dorner/649938/23 "2013-02-14T21:43:02Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > But for the use of deadly force the threat has to be immediate (i.e.“he is pointing a gun at me.”) not potential (“He has a gun and he has killed before, he might shoot, so shoot him in the back.”). > > The real question is where fire falls in the spectrum of “deadly force”. If he could walk out unharmed (??) then probably not considered “deadly”. As has been pointed out in several threads I have been in, your legal knowledge is lacking and yet you post as if you know what you are talking about. As I asked before (and was ignored) where do you get your information from? Because your grasp of this concept is lacking as well. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-actual-evidence-against-dorner/649938/24 "2013-02-14T23:21:50Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > I don’t understand what you don’t understand. The dude was full-on into loon territory and you think he had the LAPD “dead to rights” on why he was disciplined? Look, I don’t care what it is you think you know about any police force on this planet, or any other planet for that matter. What I care about is somethign called _substantiation_. Dorner’s screed against the Los Angeles Police Department was unsubstantiated. On the other hand, the departmental charges against him were substantiated and that’s why he was canned. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-actual-evidence-against-dorner/649938/25 "2013-02-14T23:27:15Z")
Ohhhhh okay. You’re right. LAPD has NO problems whatsoever. Guy was clearly ONLY crazy. He had the LAPD dead to rights on the culture of racism, bullying and outright criminal activity. Rampart. Jump Out Boys. Look that shit up. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-actual-evidence-against-dorner/649938/26 "2013-02-14T23:46:20Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > Ohhhhh okay. You’re right. LAPD has NO problems whatsoever. Guy was clearly ONLY crazy. Where did I say the LAPD has no problems whatsoever? > [@](#): > > He had the LAPD dead to rights on the culture of racism, bullying and outright criminal activity. Rampart. Jump Out Boys. Look that shit up. “Dead to rights” means he was right about what he said about the LAPD. He said he was treated unfairly. He wasn’t. And any further response I have for your continued BS will be in The BBQ Pit if I feel the need to entertain you anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-actual-evidence-against-dorner/649938/27 "2013-02-15T00:09:37Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > Ohhhhh okay. You’re right. LAPD has NO problems whatsoever. Guy was clearly ONLY crazy. > > He had the LAPD dead to rights on the culture of racism, bullying and outright criminal activity. Rampart. Jump Out Boys. Look that shit up. If he was railroaded normal people would have gone about things differently. You appeal. You sue. You go to the press. You don’t kill the child of the person who represented you and her boyfriend. And then go kill officers from completely different departments than who you have a beef with. I think the decision to fire him is looking pretty good. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-actual-evidence-against-dorner/649938/28 "2013-02-15T00:51:37Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > Or assassination by cop so he deliberately does not get his day in court. Eh, even if he’d been taken alive, no judge was going to allow him to try and bring up his issues with the LAPD during his trial. Even if every word of his manifesto was 100% true, it doesn’t have any bearing on whether or not he’s guilty of murder. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-actual-evidence-against-dorner/649938/29 "2013-02-15T02:17:11Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > Ohhhhh okay. You’re right. LAPD has NO problems whatsoever. Guy was clearly ONLY crazy. > > He had the LAPD dead to rights on the culture of racism, bullying and outright criminal activity. Rampart. Jump Out Boys. Look that shit up. Improperly fired. Murdered people. If he’d had a case, a normal person would have contacted a lawyer, not murdered other people. Doesn’t matter if LAPD was the KKK. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-actual-evidence-against-dorner/649938/30 "2013-02-15T02:21:30Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Eh, even if he’d been taken alive, no judge was going to allow him to try and bring up his issues with the LAPD during his trial. Even if every word of his manifesto was 100% true, it doesn’t have any bearing on whether or not he’s guilty of murder. Very true. And at best he may have had dirt on one or two low to mid level guys. This was not someone who had a deep understanding of the inner workings of the illuminati running the LAPD. This was a guy who was suspended from his job and never got it back after less than a year on the road. He was a rookie who never got out from under the wing of a field training officer. He was also forced out of the Navy reserves when he was unable to get promoted. As an officer you get forced out if you get passed over for rank. There is more to that story. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-actual-evidence-against-dorner/649938/31 "2013-02-15T02:55:33Z")
Well, the one time, apparently, that he had any dirt on someone, that someone was low-level and the dirt was something Dorner made up. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-actual-evidence-against-dorner/649938/32 "2013-02-15T03:04:57Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Well, the one time, apparently, that he had any dirt on someone, that someone was low-level and the dirt was something Dorner made up. I didn’t look into the issue in depth. He reported his field training officer for excessive force. FTOs are usually no higher than corporal or equivalent rank. That is pretty low on a big city department. I don’t know if his original complaint had any merit. But several layers of people did agree with his firing including at least one judge. It’s possible they were all corrupt. But the fact that Dorner was batshit crazy makes tips the scales towards the firing being justified. ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-actual-evidence-against-dorner/649938/33 "2013-02-15T03:07:31Z")
Hey gang: annson2995 answered my GQ in the first reply. Sorry I did not get back here sooner and ask the mods to close this thread down. It took me a couple of days to get the links to load on my crappy connection and then I got distracted. So thanks annson2995 and mods please close the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-actual-evidence-against-dorner/649938/34 "2013-02-15T03:16:21Z")
> [@sinjin](#): > > Hey gang: annson2995 answered my GQ in the first reply. Sorry I did not get back here sooner and ask the mods to close this thread down. It took me a couple of days to get the links to load on my crappy connection and then I got distracted. So thanks annson2995 and mods please close the thread. You know what? I looked at the first link in his post but didn’t click on the second. That is a very interesting article and explains a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-actual-evidence-against-dorner/649938/35 "2013-02-15T21:41:55Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > Improperly fired. Murdered people. > > If he’d had a case, a normal person would have contacted a lawyer, not murdered other people. Doesn’t matter if LAPD was the KKK. No one is supporting his actions. BUT-- you can’t dismiss EVERYTHING he said because he was crazy. If a crazy person says the sky is blue… do you start to question whether or not the sky is blue? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-actual-evidence-against-dorner/649938/36 "2013-02-16T19:29:54Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > No one is supporting his actions. BUT-- you can’t dismiss EVERYTHING he said because he was crazy. If a crazy person says the sky is blue… do you start to question whether or not the sky is blue? After looking into it just a little bit I can pretty much dismiss everything he said. Which does not mean there are no problems with the LAPD or that there isn’t corruption. He was never in a position to see it. If he got anything right it was just a coincidence. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-actual-evidence-against-dorner/649938.md?page=1)