# What is the argument for politically disenfranchising convicted felons? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 6, 2012, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-argument-for-politically-disenfranchising-convicted-felons/640098 "2012-11-06T16:25:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2012, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-argument-for-politically-disenfranchising-convicted-felons/640098/21 "2012-11-06T22:57:56Z")
A lot of judges and DA’s are elected. Imagine if felons could vote. If enough voted together they could shift elections of the people that put them in jail. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2012, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-argument-for-politically-disenfranchising-convicted-felons/640098/22 "2012-11-06T23:15:46Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > A prison sentence is just one part of your punishment. Not being able to vote is another part of your punishment. Is there any evidence that losing voting rights deters people from committing crimes? Even [Eugene Debs](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_Debs) (who could not vote for himself in 1920 because he was a convicted felon) does not seem to have been deterred from his life of crime. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-argument-for-politically-disenfranchising-convicted-felons/640098/23 "2012-11-07T00:50:02Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Seems to me that "yeah, fuck those guys " pretty much sums it up. I don’t really have a problem with that. I don’t like it. What is to stop some Liberal Sheriff in some Vermont County from framing all the Republicans in the county with some crime, having them plead to a lesser felony offense with no jail time, and then taking away their vote in perpetuity. I know that Vermont does not actually have voter disfranchisement laws, but I wouldn’t want them to do this any more than I would want the good folks in Virginia or Kentucky (those states with lifetime disfranchisement for felony convictions) to frame all the liberals… There is just too much opportunity for a corrupt government to screw over citizens with these laws, we should never give the government legal ways to take power from the people where it belongs. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-argument-for-politically-disenfranchising-convicted-felons/640098/24 "2012-11-07T01:10:02Z")
Voter suppression is likely an unspoken part of the purpose. The poor and minorities are grossly disproportionally likely to end up with a felony conviction. Forbidding them votes makes them politically less powerful as a group, and even those who have no conviction more prone to despair and submissiveness since they know it makes them even weaker. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-argument-for-politically-disenfranchising-convicted-felons/640098/25 "2012-11-07T01:25:02Z")
> [@L. G. Butts](#): > > I don’t like it. What is to stop some Liberal Sheriff in some Vermont County from framing all the Republicans in the county with some crime, having them plead to a lesser felony offense with no jail time, and then taking away their vote in perpetuity. First of all, felonies are geneally punishable by a minimum of one year in prison. Secondly, you need to provide the judge with some kind of evidence in order for him to accept a guilty plea. And the burden of proof for felonies is fairly high. So this scenario is about as likely to succeed as assassinating Castro with a poisoned cigar. In any case, once your sentence is up, I really see no reason why a felon shouldn’t be allowed to vote. It bothers me that restoration is not automatic in most places; you have to apply for clemency or expungement which can be denied for any reason. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-argument-for-politically-disenfranchising-convicted-felons/640098/26 "2012-11-07T01:30:45Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Voter suppression is likely an unspoken part of the purpose. The poor and minorities are grossly disproportionally likely to end up with a felony conviction. Forbidding them votes makes them politically less powerful as a group, and even those who have no conviction more prone to despair and submissiveness since they know it makes them even weaker. Ah yes. It all comes back to racism . . . ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-argument-for-politically-disenfranchising-convicted-felons/640098/27 "2012-11-07T01:40:19Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Ah yes. It all comes back to racism . . . Or class warfare. Both make sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-argument-for-politically-disenfranchising-convicted-felons/640098/28 "2012-11-07T01:41:20Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Ah yes. It all comes back to racism . . . In America yes; racism is and always has been a central feature in American politics. However much you may want to believe that the severity of punishment tracks race because non-whites are just innately morally inferior. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-argument-for-politically-disenfranchising-convicted-felons/640098/29 "2012-11-07T01:44:46Z")
> [@Vita\_Beata](#): > > As Roger Clegg, president of the conservative advocacy group Center for Equal Opportunity, neatly puts it, “If you aren’t willing to follow the law, you can’t claim the right to make the law for everyone else.” > > The above is taken from the link Taomist just added. So he would support disenfranchising everyone who ever broke a law? ---
**Author:** ![sitchensis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sitchensis/32/4892_2.png) [@sitchensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sitchensis)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-argument-for-politically-disenfranchising-convicted-felons/640098/30 "2012-11-07T01:46:12Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Voter suppression is likely an unspoken part of the purpose. The poor and minorities are grossly disproportionally likely to end up with a felony conviction. Forbidding them votes makes them politically less powerful as a group, and even those who have no conviction more prone to despair and submissiveness since they know it makes them even weaker. Are you saying that non-whites are incapable of not being criminals? Because that sounds pretty racist. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-argument-for-politically-disenfranchising-convicted-felons/640098/31 "2012-11-07T01:56:04Z")
> [@sitchensis](#): > > Are you saying that non-whites are incapable of not being criminals? Because that sounds pretty racist. The essential part of the argument is that a higher proportion of blacks are disenfranchised because they have been convicted of felonies. It’s not essential that they commit more crimes – that may or may not be so, but it probably is (at least in part) because law enforcement is racially biased. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-argument-for-politically-disenfranchising-convicted-felons/640098/32 "2012-11-07T02:42:34Z")
> [@sitchensis](#): > > Are you saying that non-whites are incapable of not being criminals? No, I’m saying they are singled out to be punished more often and more harshly. As well as more likely to be falsely accused. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-argument-for-politically-disenfranchising-convicted-felons/640098/33 "2012-11-07T05:03:12Z")
For those states where felons lose the right to vote, is it for any felony? In Spain one of the possible punishments for a crime is losing your right to vote for X time, but it’s separate from other sentencing, specifically available for some crimes only and highly inusual. Losing your right to run for office or hold a government job is more common but again for a limited time indicated in the sentence itself; it is linked to crimes involving government positions elected or not - “misappropiation of public funds”, for example. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-argument-for-politically-disenfranchising-convicted-felons/640098/34 "2012-11-07T05:45:45Z")
Much of our Crime and Punishment involves curtailing the person’s freedom . . . like the freedom to go outside wherever he pleases, the freedom to enjoy his family, the freedom to get a job he wants, . . . and somewhere down the line, the freedom to vote. Is the OP looking for some “objective” way of deciding which freedoms to limit? Perhaps if we knew which freedoms a given criminal would miss the most, we might be able to start there. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-argument-for-politically-disenfranchising-convicted-felons/640098/35 "2012-11-09T01:23:39Z")
> [@sitchensis](#): > > Are you saying that non-whites are incapable of not being criminals? Because that sounds pretty racist. Are you actually unaware of the racially-biased patterns of criminal investigation, prosecution, and conviction in this country, or are you just trying to score cheap points? The fact that black people are more likely to be convicted of felonies does not imply that black people are incapable of being law-abiding. Come back when you’ve learned some basic logic. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-argument-for-politically-disenfranchising-convicted-felons/640098.md?page=1)