Settlers clearly do not wish to live in the Israel that “is not and has never been a ‘religiously pure ethnostate’”, or they would not choose to live outside of it.
~Max
The settlers are an impediment to peace and should either return to Israel proper or agree to live under Palestinian law (which I doubt they’d be happy about), but their existence doesn’t justify 10/7 nor does it invalidate Israel’s right to self-defense.
Pogrom is not the correct term, because Jews are not a racial minority in Israel and the October 7th attack was not condoned by the authorities in Israel. Resistance against foreign rule can be categorized as a rebellion.
October 7th itself is not the best defense of the apartheid-like system Israel enforces in its occupied territories, simply because the apartheid-like system pre-dates the attack and applies in other territories where Hamas has less power.
~Max
Neither of those are part of the essential definition of the word.
Attacking a music festival and killing college kids and old women on farms and setting babies on fire and torturing people to death while using their own phones to livestream it on their Facebook account is not “resistance against foreign rule”.
Murray quotes one terrorist’s recorded call home to his Gazan parents from an Israeli kibbutz during the attack. “Hi Dad. Open my WhatsApp now and you will see all those killed. Look how many I killed with my own hands. Your son killed Jews.” His father responds, “may God protect you” before the terrorist exults further. “Dad, I’m talking to you from a Jewish woman’s phone. I killed her and I killed her husband. I killed ten with my own hands.” His parents reply, “Oh my son. God bless you,” with his mother adding, “I wish I was with you.”
American Heritage: An organized, often officially encouraged massacre or persecution of a minority group, especially one conducted against Jews.
Britannica: pogrom, (Russian: “devastation,” or “riot”), a mob attack, either approved or condoned by authorities, against the persons and property of a religious, racial, or national minority. The term is usually applied to attacks on Jews in the Russian Empire in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.
Terrorism can be a form of resistance against foreign rule. In fact, it is one of the most common forms. Compare: the FLN in Algeria, the IRA in Northern Ireland, Irgun and Lehi in the British Mandate for Palestine, the Tripolitsa massacre during the Greek War of Independence, multiple massacres and kidnappings of American colonists by Native American tribes. All are described as resistance. Not all resistance is legitimate.
~Max
If it’s illegitimate, then don’t lend it credibility by calling it “resistance”.
I originally said “rebellion”. Need I clarify that not all forms of rebellion are legitimate?
~Max
Massacreing women and children is not “rebellion”.
Oh, but it can be.
~Max
According to Israel supporters, it’s just collateral damage. Even when you snipe 4-year olds. So…
That never happened.
Yes, it did. And two-year olds, and six-year olds…
You can deny it all you want, but it’s all very well documented. The IDF deliberately targets children, there is no other explanation for the pattern of injuries doctors have recorded.
Nevertheless, a violent attack by a group under occupation does not, by itself, justify the entire system imposed on the occupied population.
It’s like saying my defense for tax delinquency is that taxes are unreasonably high. The “defense” just does not excuse the charge. The best defense might be that one’s priority is to cover living expenses, and there just isn’t enough left over to pay taxes. That the taxes are unreasonably high is tangential at best. You have to connect the dots.
You have said that it would be irresponsible for Israel to end military occupation immediately. That defense is weak because it invites counter-proposals to end the apartheid-like system without ending military occupation immediately, and therefore does not justify the apartheid-like system itself.
~Max
Yes, it did. And two-year olds, and six-year olds…
“Children were shot on a battlefield” != “children are being deliberately targeted”.
What does “ending the apartheid-like system” look like to you?
~Max
Sharpshooters Snipers target people.
So removing the settlers? I agree that would be a good step.
The settlers were removed from Gaza 20 years ago. Still didn’t solve the problem.
“People have been shot” != “they were shot by snipers”.
And this thread is not about Gaza as it exists today, is it? You won’t find settlers in Gaza who brutalize Palestinians while only subject to military law, and not the civil justice system.
~Max
The point is that removing the settlers clearly won’t be enough to resolve the root of the problem, because they still voted in a fanatical government that went on to start a war. Once that’s done, what’s the next step?