# What is the biggest exposed conspiracy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 19, 2009, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-biggest-exposed-conspiracy/518204 "2009-11-19T21:45:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-biggest-exposed-conspiracy/518204/1 "2009-11-19T21:45:57Z")
Not sure if it belongs on this board or not so if mods need to move it then please do. I’m curious about what the biggest exposed conspiracy is. These days, with extremists left and right shouting about conspiracies, the easy retort is to call them a conspiracy theorist and laugh at their arguments. Are conspiracies so difficult to pull off and keep secret that merely associating an argument with the term is enough to silence its proponents? I think about what some people are calling conspiracies nowadays, like Obama being a secret Muslim and born in Kenya, or Bush and co. being responsible for 9/11. Either one of these would take a lot of time, effort, and require a lot of people to keep silent. More recently, we can look at JFK’s assasination as something people think has been covered up. Natural phenomenon can be conspiracies too. Are there aliens abducting people from the Bermuda triangle? Are crop circles really made by these visitors? What about Tunguska? Was that really a comet, or an exploding flying saucer? Throughout history, we have even more examples. Do the Freemasons really control the world? What about the Illuminati? Was there something shady going on with the Knights Templar? Could Dan Brown have been right? Was Shakespeare really just a pseudonym? I’m curious about any real life conspiracies that have been exposed, the bigger the better. Ideally, such a conspiracy would have been kept secret for a while, affect many people, possibly change how history was viewed. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-biggest-exposed-conspiracy/518204/2 "2009-11-19T21:56:46Z")
The Holocaust. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-biggest-exposed-conspiracy/518204/3 "2009-11-19T22:12:26Z")
Does the Holocaust count as a conspiracy? IMO a conspiracy requires a government cover-up and I don’t think the Nazis cared about who knew. In the US two conspiracies stand out to me, the [Tuskege syphilis experiment](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_syphilis_experiment) and Watergate. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-biggest-exposed-conspiracy/518204/4 "2009-11-19T22:24:40Z")
I don’t think they’re part of a conspiracy, but crop circles have been pretty well documented as hoaxes by pranksters and drunk kids (one group even showed how to do it with a board and a cord on the BBC, I think). ---
**Author:** ![jk1245](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/49beb7/32.png) [@jk1245](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jk1245)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-biggest-exposed-conspiracy/518204/5 "2009-11-19T22:29:46Z")
The two that immediately came to mind for me were the Gulf of Tonkin Incident (where the 2nd attack never actually happened, which was only recently disclosed) and Iran-Contra. Also, the CIA’s mucking around in Iran and reinstalling the Shah, which didn’t work out so well, and is still influencing the Mideast. In fairness, it must also be said that manufacturing evidence to justify invading a sovereign nation ranks pretty high on the conspiracy meter, but that’s recent enough that it may need to simmer a while before history can get an accurate read on it. I’d be interested to hear what international Dopers have to say, as the only non-US one I’m all that familiar with is the Gunpowder Plot. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-biggest-exposed-conspiracy/518204/6 "2009-11-19T22:34:06Z")
The Diebold and republican stealing of the elections. ---
**Author:** ![Pray\_for\_peace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Pray\_for\_peace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pray_for_peace)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-biggest-exposed-conspiracy/518204/7 "2009-11-19T22:46:22Z")
My Lai ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-biggest-exposed-conspiracy/518204/8 "2009-11-19T22:59:25Z")
Does it have to be a government conspiracy? Does the al-Qaeda plot for the attack on the WTC and Pentagon count? it was a criminal conspiracy, after all. Or would it not count as an “exposed” conspiracy, as it became known only after it was carried out? ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-biggest-exposed-conspiracy/518204/9 "2009-11-19T23:00:58Z")
[Project Jennifer](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Jennifer) In short, the U.S. wanted to recover a Soviet ballistic missile submarine which had sunk in the Pacific Ocean in 1968. In the early 70s, under the direction of the CIA, the U.S. built a 619-foot-long ship (the Hughes Glomar Explorer, with the cooperation of Howard Hughes) designed to raise the submarine under the cover story that they were conducting undersea mining of manganese nodules. The salvage was attempted in 1974, but the submarine broke up and only a 38-foot section was recovered. _The New York Times_ knew about it in advance, but were convinced to delay publication until after the operation. They broke the story in 1975. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-biggest-exposed-conspiracy/518204/10 "2009-11-19T23:06:38Z")
The biggest exposed conspiracy is the one to explain all complex and hard-to-grasp issues by means of conspiracy theories. The subject of conspiracy theories of all kinds, from JFK to 9/11 seems to come up on this board every few days. There have also been recent threads on why people believe in this stuff, of which [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=533680&highlight=conspiracy+theory) is one example. There are many more which I could not immediately find. Obviously, They don’t want you to know. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-biggest-exposed-conspiracy/518204/11 "2009-11-19T23:08:23Z")
Bush & Co.'s Iraq War II. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-biggest-exposed-conspiracy/518204/12 "2009-11-19T23:08:59Z")
Clearly, it was Obama’s birth in Kenya. Think of how many people had to plan so far in advance for him to get to the Oval office with that little secret. It’s mind blowing, I tell ya! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-biggest-exposed-conspiracy/518204/13 "2009-11-19T23:09:06Z")
> [@Sidney Evgeni Jordan](#): > > My Lai Was that a conspiracy? Or just a case of officers and troops on the ground, under ambiguous orders and a buttload of stress, going crazy-wild? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-biggest-exposed-conspiracy/518204/14 "2009-11-19T23:38:44Z")
How about the Dreyfus Affair? It was a genuine conspiracy (to frame a Jewish army captain for spying) and its uncovering led to huge political consequences in France. Edit: and had a formative impact on Zionism as well (with all that implies for history). ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2009, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-biggest-exposed-conspiracy/518204/15 "2009-11-20T00:15:18Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > [Project Jennifer](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Jennifer) > > The salvage was attempted in 1974, but the submarine broke up and only a 38-foot section was recovered. _The New York Times_ knew about it in advance, but were convinced to delay publication until after the operation. They broke the story in 1975. Given that 1974 is the year the project was underway, I’m not sure that this counts as a large conspiracy that held for any time before being exposed. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2009, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-biggest-exposed-conspiracy/518204/16 "2009-11-20T00:18:16Z")
[MKUltra](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKULTRA) CIA Mind Control experiments for real. Hookers dosing Johns with LSD without their knowledge. Got exposed when they dosed an agent without telling him and he jumped out a window of the Plaza Hotel. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2009, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-biggest-exposed-conspiracy/518204/17 "2009-11-20T00:32:15Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > Does the Holocaust count as a conspiracy? IMO a conspiracy requires a government cover-up and I don’t think the Nazis cared about who knew. > > In the US two conspiracies stand out to me, the [Tuskege syphilis experiment](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_syphilis_experiment) and Watergate. The nazis tried to destroy evidence of the holocaust near the end of the war. > **[Holocaust denial](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial#Attempts_at_concealment_by_perpetrators)** > > Holocaust denial is the negationist and antisemitic claim that Nazi Germany and its collaborators did not commit genocide against European Jews during World War II, ignoring overwhelming historical evidence to the contrary. Theories assert that the genocide of Jews is a fabrication or exaggeration. Holocaust denial includes making one or more of the following false claims: that Nazi Germany's "Final Solution" was aimed only at deporting Jews from the territory of the Third Holocaust denial ha... Other big exposed conspiracies include Operation northwoods: > **[Operation Northwoods](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods)** > > Operation Northwoods was a proposed false flag operation which originated within the Department of Defense of the US government in 1962. The proposals called for Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) operatives to both stage and commit acts of terrorism against US military and civilian targets, blame them on the Cuban government, and use them to justify a war against Cuba. The possibilities detailed in the document included the remote control of civilian aircraft which would be secretly repainted as ... The CIA was supposed to commit terrorism against US citizens and blame them on Cuba, to justify a war in Cuba. Iran Contra: Selling weapons to Iran to free hostages and channel arms to terrorist groups in Nicaragua. > **[Iran–Contra affair](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_contra)** > > The Iran–Contra affair (Persian: ماجرای ایران-کنترا; Spanish: Caso Irán-Contra), also referred to as the Iran–Contra scandal, the Iran Initiative, or simply Iran–Contra, was a political scandal in the United States that centered on arms trafficking to Iran between 1981 and 1986, facilitated by senior officials of the Ronald Reagan administration. The administration hoped to use the proceeds of the arms sale to fund the Contras, an anti-Sandinista rebel group in Nicaragua. Under the Boland Ame... USS LIberty incident: > **[USS Liberty incident](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident)** > > The USS Liberty incident was an attack on a United States Navy technical research ship (a spy ship), USS Liberty, by Israeli Air Force jet fighter aircraft and Israeli Navy motor torpedo boats, on 8 June 1967, during the Six-Day War. Both the Israeli and United States governments conducted inquiries and issued reports that concluded the attack was a mistake due to Israeli confusion about the ship's identity. > The combined air and sea attack killed 34 crew members (naval officers, seamen, two ... No idea if people consider this a conspiracy theory or an exposed conspiracy theory. But basically Israelis attacked a US ship and tried to sink it while killing all people who attempted to get into lifeboats. The goal was supposedly a backroom agreement between the US and Israeli governments for Israel to sink a US ship and blame it on Egypt so the US could enter the six day war on Israel’s side. The Manhattan project: > **[Manhattan Project](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_project)** > > The Manhattan Project was a research and development program undertaken during World War II to produce the first nuclear weapons. It was led by the United States in collaboration with the United Kingdom and Canada. The Manhattan Project employed nearly 130,000 people at its peak and cost nearly US$2 billion (equivalent to about $28 billion in 2024). > From 1942 to 1946, the project was directed by Major General Leslie Groves of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. Nuclear physicist J. Robert O... This was a huge conspiracy at the time. Physicists just disappeared and weren’t allowed to talk about what they were working on. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2009, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-biggest-exposed-conspiracy/518204/18 "2009-11-20T00:54:33Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > The nazis tried to destroy evidence of the holocaust near the end of the war. Coverup of war crimes, immediately failed. > [@](#): > > Operation northwoods From your own cite: “It was never officially accepted or executed” > [@](#): > > Iran Contra Secret operation, exposed within relatively short time frame. > [@](#): > > USS LIberty incident No conspiracy ever demonstrated. > [@](#): > > The Manhattan project If you’re going to include this, you’ll have to describe every secret military project as a “conspiracy”. Is the planning for D-Day a “conspiracy” in your book? The real question is, what true conspiracies have remained hidden for long periods of time, with the truth postulated by conspiracy theorists but ridiculed/put down by most observers, and then been shown to be true? In that case, the list is very, very, very short. The Dreyfus Affair is one of the few examples. _Criminal_ conspiracies: relatively common. As in Wall St. shenanigans, conspiracy to commit murder etc. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2009, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-biggest-exposed-conspiracy/518204/19 "2009-11-20T00:57:02Z")
Business plot: attempt by several leaders of the business community to use unemployed WW1 veterans to overthrow the US government. > **[Business Plot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot)** > > The Business Plot (also called the Wall Street Putsch and The White House Putsch) was a political conspiracy in 1933, in the United States, to overthrow the government of President Franklin D. Roosevelt and install Smedley Butler as dictator. Retired Marine Corps Major General Smedley Butler asserted that wealthy businessmen were plotting to create a fascist veterans' organization with Butler as its leader and use it in a coup d'état to overthrow Roosevelt. In 1934, Butler testified unde Early ... Also when Stalin and Mao were conducting domestic purges they tried to cover them up. The truth eventually came out though. The makers of cigarettes and aspestos tried to cover up the health risks of these products. Those are large conspiracy theories. Seeing how thousands of investigative journalists make a living exposing conspiracies, they are not that uncommon. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2009, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-biggest-exposed-conspiracy/518204/20 "2009-11-20T00:58:12Z")
While I don’t in general buy Freemason CTs, there is the well documented case of [Propaganda Due](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_Due) or P2, the Italian Masonic lodge that some say operated as a shadow government for several decades. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-biggest-exposed-conspiracy/518204.md?page=2)