# What is the biggest exposed conspiracy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 19, 2009, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-biggest-exposed-conspiracy/518204 "2009-11-19T21:45:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2009, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-biggest-exposed-conspiracy/518204/41 "2009-11-20T14:34:34Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Yay I’m being singled out. > > Conspiracies of 9/11 do not generally portray it as a jewish conspiracy. That is a strawman argument on your part. However, I do feel there are questions that I would like to see answers to about 9/11. > > [http://www.911independentcommission.org/questions.html](http://www.911independentcommission.org/questions.html) > > I’d also like to know why none of the warnings we got were followed up on in any meaningful way. > > [http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete\_911\_timeline&complete\_911\_timeline\_key\_events=complete\_911\_timeline\_key\_warnings](http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timeline&complete_911_timeline_key_events=complete_911_timeline_key_warnings) > > If anything, these loose ends are making even more radical conspiracy theories sound more plausible. > > Four is false because HIV is evolved from SIV, which wasn’t isolated and discovered until years after HIV appeared in humans. > > As far as point 8, I do think there are issues that need to be looked into. More investigations into issues like this. > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoiX7BqscuY](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoiX7BqscuY) > > As far as issue 9, cancer is far too complex for there to be a cureall. > > Aside from that, I haven’t seen evidence for the other issues being true. If other people have some, I’m willing to see it. LOL Number 10 is absolutely true, but it’s a whole lot simpler than either the conspiracy theorists or their detractors will allow with their cognitive dissonance. People in power factionalize, period, they form cabals, coteries, cliques. Just like everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2009, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-biggest-exposed-conspiracy/518204/42 "2009-11-20T14:54:01Z")
I still say that the Dreyfus Affair is, so far, the best example, in that it: (a) was clearly a conspiracy rather than merely a military secret; (b) the conspiracy was actually carried out; © It was successful for a time; (d) It was eventually uncovered; and (e) it was “big” in that the political consequences were huge. I don’t agree that the Holocaust qualifies as a “conspiracy”, since its existence wasn’t a secret to most of the people in Europe; only the exact details of what happened was ‘secret’. Part of the point of the Holocaust was to serve as an awful warning of the penalty of incurring Nazi displeasure, which sort of requires that folks know in broad outlines that it was happening. To the extent that the people being killed were ‘fooled’, it was more in the form of a mind game than actual disception - the use of “resettlement” and “showers” and the like was intended to keep them guessing and thus docile. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2009, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-biggest-exposed-conspiracy/518204/43 "2009-11-20T14:56:20Z")
The Donation of Constantine ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2009, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-biggest-exposed-conspiracy/518204/44 "2009-11-20T14:58:57Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > The Donation of Constantine Aren’t the actions of the Emperor a matter of state regardless of what they are? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2009, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-biggest-exposed-conspiracy/518204/45 "2009-11-20T15:06:12Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > The Donation of Constantine That’s a good one. Though it wasn’t “exposed” until it was essentially irrelevant. That’s probably a good example of a _successful_ conspiracy. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2009, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-biggest-exposed-conspiracy/518204/46 "2009-11-20T15:32:25Z")
What about Enron? I don’t recall if any of the corporate officers were ever charged with conspiracy, but the company’s ultimate goal seemed to be artificial manipulation of the energy market for huge profit. With the Fed audit bill making its way out of committee, perhaps the next big conspiracy exposed will be between the Federal Reserve and the banking industry. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2009, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-biggest-exposed-conspiracy/518204/47 "2009-11-20T15:48:13Z")
The full history of the Catholic Church’s involvement in protecting pedophiles is yet to be written. What do know indicates at least a long-term conspiracy covering a huge geographic area, or perhaps a number of independent conspiracies that developed and operated separately. Further, it is doubtful the conspiracy was exclusively in the Church, as it seems to have involved clergy of other faiths as well as secular people. Again, while we can be certain that at least a large cabal in the Church coordinated this coverup, it is possible that it stretches further than we now know. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2009, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-biggest-exposed-conspiracy/518204/48 "2009-11-20T16:20:45Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > [MKUltra](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKULTRA) > > CIA Mind Control experiments for real. Hookers dosing Johns with LSD without their knowledge. Got exposed when they dosed an agent without telling him and he jumped out a window of the Plaza Hotel. Actually, Oswold’s body was exhumed, and the hole in his head was deemed more consistent with a blow from a rifle butt than a fall out of the window. I don’t think it is the largest as far as effect on History as whole, but when you get into shear massive scale only the Holocaust would seem to beat [Potemkin’s Villages](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potemkin_village) . I do think the Holocaust applies though; specifically the sub-plot of the Hitler government deciding to eliminate the handicapped and non-“aryan” citizens of Germany and it’s captured territories. An interesting cross-pollination in the Potempkin Wiki: > [@](#): > > The Nazi German Theresienstadt concentration camp, called “the Paradise Ghetto” in World War II, was designed as a concentration camp that could be shown to the Red Cross, but was really a Potemkin village: attractive at first, but deceptive and ultimately lethal, with high death rates from malnutrition and contagious diseases. It ultimately served as a way-station to Auschwitz-Birkenau. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2009, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-biggest-exposed-conspiracy/518204/49 "2009-11-20T16:30:50Z")
[The Teapot Dome scandal](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teapot_Dome_scandal)? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-biggest-exposed-conspiracy/518204/50 "2009-11-22T09:36:53Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > [The Lavon Affair](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_Affair), where Mossad agents undertook terrorist attacks on US and UK assets and then attempted to blame it on Muslims. > > This is the biggest confirmed conspiracy I can think of, and one that is frequently used to justify clams that “The Jews” were responsible for the 9/11 attacks. Not Mossad - Military Intelligence. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-biggest-exposed-conspiracy/518204/51 "2009-11-22T09:39:22Z")
I came in to mention Enron, but have been beaten to it. They actually were manipulating fake energy crises to keep demand high. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-biggest-exposed-conspiracy/518204/52 "2009-11-22T10:32:25Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > As far as point 8, I do think there are issues that need to be looked into. More investigations into issues like this. > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoiX7BqscuY](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoiX7BqscuY) Is anybody going to have a go at ripping this to shreds? [Here are some more claims.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtKb6uVRRPc) ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-biggest-exposed-conspiracy/518204/53 "2009-11-22T10:35:19Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Was that a conspiracy? Or just a case of officers and troops on the ground, under ambiguous orders and a buttload of stress, going crazy-wild? [My Lai](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre) My take on reading about it, and hearing about it on TV, and hearing my dad and his buddies discussing it was it was not a conspiracy per se but horribly bad orders gone wild. The unit was told that the non VC members of the community would be gone, and every body there were to be killed, and everything destroyed. The unit given the orders went way overboard to the atrocity level. There _was_ an attempt at a cover up, which was blown by a member of the unit in a letter to then President Nixon. Not to get into a discussion about it, but the problem with the whole Vietnam war was there really was not a defined enemy as such. We had an indigenous population that were having their own internal issues, and there was no good way to mark them apart. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-biggest-exposed-conspiracy/518204/54 "2009-11-22T10:51:52Z")
I’ve always felt the Chinese handling of the Tienanmen Square events could count as a fairly successful conspiracy. Most young Chinese people either have no idea that anything happened, or they have a vague idea that something happened but it was probably the work of foreign agitators. Those who know and understand what happened are usually unwilling to speak about it. While information is available to people willing to make any effort, few people even know that they are missing information, and those that do find it often reject it as false. It’s kind of amazing. A huge number of people who are in the dark about what most foreigners consider one of the key events in their modern history. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-biggest-exposed-conspiracy/518204/55 "2009-11-23T00:28:55Z")
Fairly recent ,the Pat Tillman cover up. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-biggest-exposed-conspiracy/518204/56 "2009-11-23T08:16:22Z")
Speaking of the Saint Barthelemy massacre, King Philippe le Bel’s mass arrest of Templars was a good one too. In one single day, the Templars went from a prestigious, influtential and extra wealthy politico-religious organisation to a handful of guys running for the hills. While it may not be as massive or important as some that have been mentionned in the thread, it’s still notable because the King managed a country-wide conspiracy involving simultaneous operations all over France, with 14th century means of communication, which nevertheless had very few leaks. Getting a letter from Paris to, say, Marseilles could take weeks back then. It’s something of a testament to his authority that hundreds of people across feudal France (not exactly known for its unity and lack of corruption) got sealed orders from him, and not only didn’t open them before he said to, but when they did open them and the order inside was utterly shocking, all obeyed. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-biggest-exposed-conspiracy/518204/57 "2009-11-23T09:32:41Z")
If military secrets count, I’d go with [Ultra](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra)/[Magic](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_(cryptography)). German and Japanese encrypted radio communications at the highest levels were broken and being read by the UK and US during WW2. The secrecy around it kept it almost entirely unknown until almost 30 years later in 1974. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-biggest-exposed-conspiracy/518204/58 "2009-11-23T15:20:35Z")
How about the [assassination of Abraham Lincoln](http://americanhistory.about.com/od/lincolnsdeath/a/lincolnsdeath.htm)? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-biggest-exposed-conspiracy/518204/59 "2009-11-23T16:05:27Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Speaking of the Saint Barthelemy massacre, King Philippe le Bel’s mass arrest of Templars was a good one too. In one single day, the Templars went from a prestigious, influtential and extra wealthy politico-religious organisation to a handful of guys running for the hills. While it may not be as massive or important as some that have been mentionned in the thread, it’s still notable because the King managed a country-wide conspiracy involving simultaneous operations all over France, with 14th century means of communication, which nevertheless had very few leaks. Getting a letter from Paris to, say, Marseilles could take weeks back then. > > It’s something of a testament to his authority that hundreds of people across feudal France (not exactly known for its unity and lack of corruption) got sealed orders from him, and not only didn’t open them before he said to, but when they did open them and the order inside was utterly shocking, all obeyed. How topsy-turvy! A conspiracy where the Knights Templars were the **victims!** ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-biggest-exposed-conspiracy/518204/60 "2009-12-01T13:12:45Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > I’m curious about what the biggest exposed conspiracy is… > > Throughout history, we have even more examples. … Was there something shady going on with the Knights Templar? … Was Shakespeare really just a pseudonym? > > I’m curious about any real life conspiracies that have been exposed, the bigger the better. Ideally, such a conspiracy would have been kept secret for a while, affect many people, possibly change how history was viewed. I think you’re asking for an important event which was kept secret for many years, but finally uncovered, _or_ an important hoax which was debunked many years later. (I think Shakespeare _might_ be a pseudonym, the Tempars _might_ have gone to Ethiopia, and the Lindbergh kidnapping _might_ involve a hoax, but those wouldn’t qualify, until _after_ such a “conspiracy theory” is proven.) The Holocaust should qualify, with millions of Germans and the rest of the world unaware of this collosal atrocity. An interesting hoax, which was exposed only after several decades, was the Piltdown Man hoax. S.J. Gould argues that the role of co-conspirator Teilhard de Chardin is still unacknowledged. I suppose things like the Biblical creation story might qualify. I think there may be a variety of other possible answers. The San Francisco Earthquake of 1906 was partly covered up in that government minimized casualty figures to avoid discouraging Westward migration. James [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-biggest-exposed-conspiracy/518204.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-biggest-exposed-conspiracy/518204.md?page=4)