# What is the business side of horse ownership like? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 9, 2013, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-business-side-of-horse-ownership-like/662998 "2013-07-09T01:31:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-business-side-of-horse-ownership-like/662998/21 "2013-07-09T16:24:07Z")
> [@BrassyPhrase](#): > > Horses are expensive! My immediate supervisor has three horses. He once told me that he spends around $3K a month on them, total. And they’re on \*his \*property and \*they \*do all the work. I often wonder if he was exaggerating, as I can’t possibly believe he would be spending $3K a month on them. But then again, I know absolutely nothing about horses. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-business-side-of-horse-ownership-like/662998/22 "2013-07-09T16:39:44Z")
If hes talkying up ALL the real costs, i could see it. They need feed hay shoes ($150 every six weeks, or $50 every 6 if you can get by without shoes) vet visits ($100 farm call charge to set foot on your property) coggins test, worming, dental… Blankets, tack (midrange saddle, $800) Barn upkeep electricity water… Fencing, pasture maintenance. Ever want to leave your poperty? Gas, trailer, truck, maintenance on both. Oh yeah, and the WORK! Not fun getting up rain or shine, sick or well. ---
**Author:** ![Renee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/renee/32/287_2.png) [@Renee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renee)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-business-side-of-horse-ownership-like/662998/23 "2013-07-09T17:05:06Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > My immediate supervisor has three horses. He once told me that he spends around $3K a month on them, total. And they’re on \*his \*property and \*they \*do all the work. > > I often wonder if he was exaggerating, as I can’t possibly believe he would be spending $3K a month on them. But then again, I know absolutely nothing about horses. We have 2 horses and a donkey on our property. All together, we spend maybe $300 a month on them, although they live outdoors with a run-in shed, and only leave the property for trail rides. $3k sounds pretty extreme. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-business-side-of-horse-ownership-like/662998/24 "2013-07-09T17:11:09Z")
In addition to the fact that you’re keeping your horses quite simply (meaning you _could_ spend more), cost vary astonishingly across the country. What costs $50 in Arkansas, costs $500 in New Jersey ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-business-side-of-horse-ownership-like/662998/25 "2013-07-09T17:15:37Z")
> [@mil0](#): > > When I spoke to the current owner, she told me that when the foal hits the ground it’ll be worth 15k, and if it’s black I could recoup all my expenses as soon as it’s born. If this is the mare that lays the golden foals, why is she looking to sell? ETA: $25k is not a lot of money for a well trained show horse; it’s a hell of a lot of money for a foal that isn’t even born yet. The only reason a black foal would be worth more than a non-black foal is if she’s counting on selling it to fools. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-business-side-of-horse-ownership-like/662998/26 "2013-07-09T17:16:14Z")
I spend no where near that amount, but my horses aren’t show horses. Show horses routinely get hocks injected, chiropractic visits, equine dental visits and expensive meds for ulcers, which most show horses have. Show horses usually have their tack custom-fitted. Decent feed runs around $28/50 lbs for grain, plus hay can vary wildly depending on where you live. People spend tens of thousands just for footing for their arena, if they have one. [Here’s a PDF which shows monthly charges for several show ponies.](http://www.ratemyhorsepro.com/userfiles/files/Pages%20from%20Heritage%20invoicesRMHP%201-23.pdf) It’s an exhibit in a lawsuit, where the (rich) horse owner is claiming the trainer ripped her off. They paid $175,000 for a welsh pony for their daughter’s beginning jumper, with the view of seller him later on for a profit. They paid board and fees totaling $514K over 8 months for 6 horses at this trainers. They aren’t complaining about the cost of the pony or the associated fees, but rather that the pony wasn’t sound when they paid $175K for him. Horses ain’t cheap. StG ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-business-side-of-horse-ownership-like/662998/27 "2013-07-09T18:03:08Z")
> [@mil0](#): > > I’d hate to spend my reiny day fund and be saddled with some lame ass-et and a huge bill-et… There’s your answer, right there. Any horse, no matter how well bred and talented, is one wrong step away from the meat man. Since you don’t personally enjoy horses and DO enjoy your money, stay far, far away from this “investment”! ---
**Author:** ![Renee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/renee/32/287_2.png) [@Renee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renee)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-business-side-of-horse-ownership-like/662998/28 "2013-07-09T19:12:27Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > In addition to the fact that you’re keeping your horses quite simply (meaning you _could_ spend more), cost vary astonishingly across the country. What costs $50 in Arkansas, costs $500 in New Jersey Yeah, I know. We actually live in a quite expensive area in New England. 3k for on property horses is quite a bit. I could easily see it if you’re boarding, though. There are nearby barns that cost $1k per horse per month. ---
**Author:** ![Shamozzle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shamozzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shamozzle)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-business-side-of-horse-ownership-like/662998/29 "2013-07-09T19:17:34Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Not at all. Sailboats don’t eat. 😃 It’s my understanding that sailboats require a steady diet of $100 bills. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-business-side-of-horse-ownership-like/662998/30 "2013-07-09T19:26:42Z")
Oh I agree it’s quite a bit. It’s just not an obvious exaggeration. I know people whose home property is as well appointed and well kept as a show barn, including indoor all weather arena with lights, sound system, erc. My trainer used to haul her 4-horse with living quarters from Michigan to Texas and Florida multiple times a year. That stuff costs, and it costs a lot. What’s startling is those $1k a month boarding places are not making a huge profit; in all likelihood it’s a break-even part of their business, the (usually required) training schedule is where they can actually make some moolah. Speaking of sunk costs, one of my trainers top competition horses developed mysterious back problems… After pouring a whole hell of a lot of money into him, he was donated for zero dollars to a blood donor herd. Total loss. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-business-side-of-horse-ownership-like/662998/31 "2013-07-09T19:31:44Z")
> [@opossum](#): > > Nothing I’ve heard of, though I don’t claim to be an expert. Probably just distributing entry fees around among the winners (with a take for the house), like those “Toddlers and Tiaras” beauty pageant contestants. Not unless the fees are very large. The fees for the shows my daughter went to paid for judges, the venue, and the many ambulances stationed on the grounds. The only prizes were ribbons and maybe a plaque for top in show. I’d suspect prize money comes from sponsors. ---
**Author:** ![Helena330](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/helena330/32/531_2.png) [@Helena330](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena330)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-business-side-of-horse-ownership-like/662998/32 "2013-07-09T19:45:27Z")
> [@saje](#): > > Standing joke in the horse world is that to make a small fortune in horses, you need to start with a large one. > Actually, that’s not a joke, it’s pretty true. > > You might get your money back, or the mare might colic and die. Or the baby be born with a fairly common leg deformity that’s correctable with $$$ surgery. Breeding is prone to fads too, just like everything else, those lines may suddenly be not all that and a bag o’ chips in two year’s time, and a mare’s gestation is 11 months. > > Horses are lovely, wonderful creatures and if you have the money to invest for the fun of owning a share of a horse, then go for it. But don’t go into it expecting to make anything, because the odds are that you won’t. > [@](#): > > When you say the 1st foal will be completely yours, that means that you are responsible for its care and handling, right? That stuff costs $$, and since you yourself can’t do any of it, it’s going to cost more. You can _easily_ burn through 25k in the time it may take to get the foal sold. And horses are delicate, even at the top farms shit happens and horses die or are injured severely enough to affect the sale price. > > They are also very much individuals - you can breed the best to the best and still get ‘meh’ as far as ability goes. Or they may have all the talent in the world but also have a serious screw loose - not at all an uncommon thing. Very talented horses tend to be very hot and quirky, what children’s books and Disney call “fiery” and “spirited”. That takes a very special kind of handler and rider, and is therefore a much more difficult sell. > > As far as the boss goes, USDF champions are a dime a dozen and it doesn’t mean much. IF these people are top breeders with many years of successful buying, breeding, training and selling, then maybe you stand a chance of not losing your shirt. Otherwise you might as well consider that 25k a gift, because the chances that you’ll get it back, never mind make anything on top of it, is slim. > > When you say her dam is a St Pr, are you saying that the dam was successful at Prix St. Georges? Because that is a high level of dressage ability, but it’s by no means unique. > > Put it this way, would you go to Vegas with 25k and play Craps with it? Because if that level of risk is too much for you, don’t invest in a horse to make money. Truer posts were never posted. Many, many more people lose money on horses than make it. The foal might be worth $15,000 when it’s born (of course, the seller is probably inflating that value), but is there a market for it? Do you have buyers lined up? That is, if nothing happens to the mare or foal. What then? Are you prepared to pay vet bills, po$$ibly staggering? For something serious, a vet bill will run in the thousands. Is that the kind of bill your girlfriend will be able to pay? I actually thinks it’s pretty selfish of her to be asking this, my gosh. :eek: Talk about putting a relationship at risk. ---
**Author:** ![Renee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/renee/32/287_2.png) [@Renee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renee)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-business-side-of-horse-ownership-like/662998/33 "2013-07-09T20:18:56Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > Oh I agree it’s quite a bit. It’s just not an obvious exaggeration. I know people whose home property is as well appointed and well kept as a show barn, including indoor all weather arena with lights, sound system, erc. My trainer used to haul her 4-horse with living quarters from Michigan to Texas and Florida multiple times a year. That stuff costs, and it costs a lot. > > What’s startling is those $1k a month boarding places are not making a huge profit; in all likelihood it’s a break-even part of their business, the (usually required) training schedule is where they can actually make some moolah. > > Speaking of sunk costs, one of my trainers top competition horses developed mysterious back problems… After pouring a whole hell of a lot of money into him, he was donated for zero dollars to a blood donor herd. Total loss. Yeah, a good friend of mine has a hunter jumper barn. They have about 30 boarders, and while the board isn’t $1K a month, it’s not cheap, either. I definitely don’t get the impression that they’re making much money at it, and it’s a TON of work, on top of a regular full time, well-paying job. [One of my horses](http://distilleryimage2.s3.amazonaws.com/0a496924be8111e29a6e22000a1fab27_7.jpg) is an ex-dressage horse, who apparently competed pretty high-level. (He’s even black!) He cost me zero dollars, too. People are giving horses away all over the place. The market for very expensive horses, especially untrained ones, is quite small. ---
**Author:** ![Vita\_Beata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@Vita\_Beata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vita_Beata)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-business-side-of-horse-ownership-like/662998/34 "2013-07-09T21:11:37Z")
> [@mil0](#): > > (snip) I’d hate to spend my reiny day fund and be saddled with some lame ass-et and a huge bill-et when I could bale now and just have to listen to her whinnying for a few days. You’ve answered your own question. It’s your “reiny day” fund .. not gambling money. Neee-i-i-gh! Our WI neighbors have a couple dozen draft horses which they show competitively. They each work full time jobs, plus come home to do neverending farm chores. They do it for the love of the animals, but it appears there are numerous expenses and small monetary rewards. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-business-side-of-horse-ownership-like/662998/35 "2013-07-09T21:34:33Z")
True about not knowing if the mare will even foal. Last summer I lost my mare a month before she was due to deliver. She was the daughter of Abdullah, one of the best jumpers ever - Olympic gold medal winner, horse of the year multiple times. She was in foal to a decent imported Dutch Warmblood stud. She was vet checked a week before she died and everything looked good. Then she was dead, and I had no foal, no mare, and a stud fee and vet bills for AI and prenatal care. StG ---
**Author:** ![IaMoDiNaRy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@IaMoDiNaRy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IaMoDiNaRy)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-business-side-of-horse-ownership-like/662998/36 "2013-07-09T22:43:17Z")
My friends and I have owned, shown, trained, bred and sold horses all of our lives. We do it because we love them and enjoy being around them immensely. The advice I’m going to offer comes from about 40 years of experience with all of the above. There are only a few ways some of the people I know have been able to make money with horses. Training and brokering (commissions earned from sales can add up to quite a bit if you’re good at it) are two of those. A trainer can take years to get established and a horse broker has to know just about everybody in the biz. In your situation, IMHO buying a pregnant broodmare and expecting to get your investment back would be the equivalent of walking in the door of a casino and putting your $25K in a slot machine hoping you’re gonna win it all back and MORE… So your girlfriend wants you to buy the mare (mares are usually bred in Feb or March in the US so they will foal as close to Jan 1 as possible). The mare should be around 4 mths pregnant by now so you would still have 7 mths of gestation left and 4 to 6 mths before the foal is weaned. She’s gonna eat a lot, need regular hoof trims and deworming and none of this is cheap. Costs for vet checks and vaccinations can be added to this, also. How much will the boarding fee be for where she’ll be kept before and after foaling? Foals are usually weaned at 4 to 6 mths of age but they’ll start trying to eat their own share of hay and grain within a few weeks. The foal will also need certain vaccinations starting at six mths. Don’t forget the cost of insurance for the mare and foal. This should include mortality and major medical. For a $25K horse, this would be minimum $1200 a year and I believe I’m really quoting below what it really will be. Also, stallion service fees are not cheap. Who will pay for this plus semen shipping, AI if allowed for the breed, boarding fees if AI is not allowed, vet expenses for AI and pregnancy check? The expense list can go on and on… If you decide to do this, you should ask for help from a knowledgeable friend to outline all of these costs and who will be responsible for what and for how long. Girlfriend or not, remember this will be a business deal. Get it in writing and have your girlfriend sign it. Make it a legal and binding document. I still seriously recommend you not do it. So many things can go wrong, not just with the horses but between you and your girlfriend. I, too, question her asking you for any amount of money. Since she is a trainer, she knows what a HUGE gamble it will be. If it’s as easy as she and the mare owner are saying it is, we’d all be rich by now, and she wouldn’t need your money! That’s a red flag for me that she asked you for money that you’ve worked hard to save so soon in your relationship and If you decide not to do it, it will be another red flag if she gets upset with you and also if she gets upset if you want to make it all legal and binding. I still say Don’t Do It… Sorry so long… Just wanted to give you an idea of what’s involved. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-business-side-of-horse-ownership-like/662998/37 "2013-07-09T23:05:59Z")
mil0, you would be the partner providing most of the money, and a result taking most of the risk. Yet you are relying on the partner to ensure that the value of your investment is maintained. The partner has no risk, and no impetus to maintain the value of the investment at her own expense. How will you know if she is obtaining the proper medical care, insurance, or choosing the right sperm for breeding? The partner’s contributions to this deal could be offered by many people for a known price, but in this circumstance you will be bound to the partner for those things. All this would be different if she had an established record in producing profits from this kind of investment. Otherwise it doesn’t make good business sense. IMHO, if your motivation is profits then you would be making a mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-business-side-of-horse-ownership-like/662998/38 "2013-07-09T23:16:56Z")
I’ll give three small positives, since we’ve all been pretty negative: Horses are nice to be around. Even for me, hardly an animal lover. You will hobnob with rich people. At our barn we had the wife of the owner of a big local chain of bed stores, the daughter of the owner of a large construction company, and the wife and daughter of a founder of a big electronics company who made a bundle when they went public. All very nice. Barns are big equalizers. I made my terrible garden soil into wonderful garden soil with composted horse manure. Miracle stuff. However you can probably get that at any barn for free. Anyhow, I trust the OP has enough ammunition now to say no and hell no to this idea. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-business-side-of-horse-ownership-like/662998/39 "2013-07-09T23:27:36Z")
> [@IaMoDiNaRy](#): > > There are only a few ways some of the people I know have been able to make money with horses. Training and brokering (commissions earned from sales can add up to quite a bit if you’re good at it) are two of those. A trainer can take years to get established and a horse broker has to know just about everybody in the biz. > …[deleted for brevity]… > Sorry so long… Just wanted to give you an idea of what’s involved. Great post. I hope the OP will take it to heart. I just wanted to add, those are the two basic ways _ethical_ people make money at horses. The third way is to scam suckers, which is about a thousand times easier than the other two ways. ---
**Author:** ![Helena330](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/helena330/32/531_2.png) [@Helena330](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena330)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-business-side-of-horse-ownership-like/662998/40 "2013-07-10T01:47:51Z")
What if you break up with your girlfriend? What will happen to the horse(s)? Will you be stuck scrambling to figure out what to do with them? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-business-side-of-horse-ownership-like/662998.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-business-side-of-horse-ownership-like/662998.md?page=3)