# What is the "Charing Cross" in Francis Thompson's poem?? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 10, 2011, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-charing-cross-in-francis-thompsons-poem/581379 "2011-05-10T07:58:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![vontsira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/51bf81/32.png) [@vontsira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vontsira)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-charing-cross-in-francis-thompsons-poem/581379/41 "2014-08-04T08:17:52Z")
Oh, yes, the shopping-at- Foyles charade – I remember that (un)fondly; and the foreign students who knew / cared nothing about what they were supposedly in charge of. The invoice / cash desk / receipt nonsense always put me in mind of what one read about standard procedure in shops in the Soviet Union. Supposedly a terrific bookshop – but, oh dear, the way it operated… I, too, have not been there since the revamping. It would be interesting to do so, just to see what the place is like now. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-charing-cross-in-francis-thompsons-poem/581379/42 "2014-08-04T08:35:46Z")
> [@Mk\_VII](#): > > Rents in Charing Cross Road have been greatly raised in recent years, and many of the second-hand bookshops have gone. I think the main reason is that the second hand book trade, even more than the new book trade, has mostly moved to the internet, where you can usually find exactly the book you want quickly and easily, even if it is only available hundreds of miles away. For the non-Londoners, it maybe worth noting that the Charing Cross Road, although it ends nearby, does not actually go right to the Charing Cross, which is on The Strand. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-charing-cross-in-francis-thompsons-poem/581379/43 "2014-08-04T08:49:00Z")
Again off topic, but Nietschke defined “Kingdom of God” as: “The “kingdom of God” is not something that men wait for: it had no yesterday and no day after tomorrow, it is not going to come at a “millennium”—it is an experience of the heart, it is everywhere and it is nowhere…” (The Anti Christ) ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-charing-cross-in-francis-thompsons-poem/581379/44 "2014-08-04T08:54:20Z")
As Nietzsche was an atheist, that is presumably what he took the standard Christian conception of the Kingdom of God to be. It is probably taken from St Augustine, or some other early Church Father. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-charing-cross-in-francis-thompsons-poem/581379/45 "2014-08-04T09:42:48Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > I think the main reason is that the second hand book trade, even more than the new book trade, has mostly moved to the internet, where you can usually find exactly the book you want quickly and easily, even if it is only available hundreds of miles away. But no browsing, and pouncing on a book at random — which was the finest form of hunting, without the needless cruelty to animals. However as noted, rents are a crucial factor, although many independent booksellers also felt local taxes were designed to force them out; and possibly an indefinable desire on the part of authorities to drive out the shabby and old ---- which made places unique — to be replaced with vibrant cloned modern retail purposed to attract the hordes of probably imaginary well-bred _nouveau riche_ with endless money they longed to spend on disposable modern crap. There are Book Fairs for second-hand books around, but these mainly sell the more expensive items of a dealer’s stock laid out on little tables: I think the Internet had not so much cause ( although it fortuitously acted as a semi-replacement ) as the ( deliberate in my opinion ) dumbification of the growing populace: the bookselling trade was dying anyway. Also, even looking at modern books, the great publishing houses have lost their mojo of recent decades, so assuming that isn’t due to their own probable lackings, maybe the audience isn’t there any more… \*Recently, rents have increased from anything between 65% to 218%, with greedy landlords seeking to raise rents even further in a fresh round of ‘negotiations’. \*… _If proof were ever needed of just how serious the situation has become, ponder this depressing fact: the famous bookstore at 84 Charing Cross Rd is now part of the ghastly ‘All Bar One’ pub chain._ **[Charing](http://www.urban75.org/london/charing.html)** Urban 75 – 2004 ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-charing-cross-in-francis-thompsons-poem/581379/46 "2014-08-04T11:41:30Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > _If proof were ever needed of just how serious the situation has become, ponder this depressing fact: the famous bookstore at 84 Charing Cross Rd is now part of the ghastly ‘All Bar One’ pub chain._ With business practices as recorded in Helene Hanff’s wonderful and moving book, it is hardly surprising that they went out of business in (around) 1970. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-charing-cross-in-francis-thompsons-poem/581379/47 "2014-08-04T12:43:06Z")
They went out of business when the owner died, I thought. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-charing-cross-in-francis-thompsons-poem/581379/48 "2014-08-04T14:21:25Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > But no browsing, and pouncing on a book at random — which was the finest form of hunting, without the needless cruelty to animals… It’s a little know fact that every time you open a page on the internet for the first time, someone kicks a puppy! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![notquitekarpov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@notquitekarpov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notquitekarpov)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-charing-cross-in-francis-thompsons-poem/581379/49 "2014-08-05T13:15:39Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > Charing Cross is the last of a series of crosses, known as 'Eleanor crosses, built by Edward I after the death of his wife, Queen Eleanor of Castile. Theirs was an unusually happy marriage (they has 16 children) and Edward was distraught when she died on her way to join him in Scotland, in November 1290. > > The grief-stricken Edward ordered her embalmed, and her entrails were buried at Lincoln Cathedral. Her body was then carried in a somber procession to Westminster Abbey in London. > > At each place where the procession stopped for the night, Edward had built a memorial cross in her honour. They are not cross shaped though, more like monuments. Today only the crosses at Waltham Cross (Hertfordshire), Geddington, and Hardingstone (both Northamptonshire) remain. The cross at Charing was demolished in 1647; it stood where there is now a statue of King Charles I on a horse at the north end of Whitehall. A replica of this cross was erected in the forecourt of Charing Cross station in 1863. > > The locations of the 12 crosses were as follows: Lincoln, Grantham, Stamford, Geddington, Northampton, Stony Stratford, Woburn, Dunstable, St Albans, Waltham, Westcheap, and Charing. > > She has a tomb in Westminster Abbey, but a similar one at Lincoln was, sadly, destroyed by Cromwell’s men. A replica was built in Victorian times, based on the 17th century engravings. > > I have visited the surviving three crosses and I believe that they may be getting some much needed restoration. Hard to believe that all this happened over 700 years ago. > > So Charing Cross is actually quite a romantic place really. > > [The Eleanor Crosses](http://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryMagazine/DestinationsUK/The-Eleanor-Crosses/) Was going to add something along these lines if you hadn’t already. All I can add is the belief that the name is corruption of the French Chère Reine Croix (Dear Queen Cross or Marker), French still being the language of the Court at the time. ---
**Author:** ![APB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-charing-cross-in-francis-thompsons-poem/581379/50 "2014-08-05T15:46:48Z")
> [@notquitekarpov](#): > > All I can add is the belief that the name is corruption of the French Chère Reine Croix (Dear Queen Cross or Marker), French still being the language of the Court at the time. Sure, there is that belief. [But that belief is incorrect](http://archive.museumoflondon.org.uk/medieval/People/147014/). ---
**Author:** ![notquitekarpov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@notquitekarpov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notquitekarpov)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-charing-cross-in-francis-thompsons-poem/581379/51 "2014-08-05T16:01:56Z")
I don’t think you can conclude that for sure. The fact it was built on a place called Cherring could equally be deliberate, given that the name was so appropriate. A play on words, if you wish, that was very popular in the medieval (just read Chaucer) period. I said “belief” quite deliberately - maybe I should have just explained why and pre-empted your expected response. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-charing-cross-in-francis-thompsons-poem/581379.md?page=2)