That gave rise to a line in Manhattan. Diane Keaton makes some reference to Van Khawkh, and Woody Allen just looks at her in disbelief, saying “Van Khawkh?”
The ironic thing is that Van Gogh himself came from Brabant, a southern part of Holland where the dialect doesn’t use the sound for /g/.
At one time, the site www.vangoghgallery.com said: “it is quite likely that most Dutchmen pronounce his name incorrectly if we take his own pronunciation as a benchmark.” But that interesting factoid isn’t up on the site anymore.
I don’t think the British ‘van gauf’ pronunciation is that much better than the American. I think it gets the vowel better than standard American, but it doesn’t do a good job with either of the consonants (which should be the same sound). The initial consonant is the same in both dialects (at least more or less) but the final consonant ‘f’ in British is misapplied because it’s pronounced in the front of the mouth while ‘x’ (ipa) is pronounce in the back of the mouth. The American version isn’t much better, but at least the final sound is pronounced in the back of the mouth.
An equivalent shift in sounds using stop consonants rather than fricatives would be pronouncing the word ‘dock’ as ‘dot’.
I’m not arguing for the superiority of the American pronunciation, but I think the British has a similar level of mismatch with the original dutch.
My surname is almost always mispronounced. When said correctly, it’s hard to guess spelling, so to make things easier on myself and others I also mispronounce it most of the time.
Instead of characterizing it as “right way” or “correct” pronunciation, would it be better to describe it as “native” Dutch pronunciation?
In other words, if you’re in America, the “right” way is “go” as you’ve been doing all along.
Likewise, what’s the “right” pronunciation for Mexico? Is it “MECKS-ee-koh” which everybody (including the most highly educated diplomats and newscasters) in the USA pronounce it, or is it the Spanish “may-HEE-koh” ?
There was an art teacher start the Van Gogh lecture like this, “Ok everybody, I’m going to mention the pronunciation of Gogh one time so you’re familiar with the sound but for the rest of the lecture, I’ll just pronounce it as ‘go’ .”
Therefore, the “correct” pronunciation is the one that matches the context and audience. If you pronounce it the Dutch native way, you’ll end up looking like a pompous ass if you’re standing on American soil.
I’m an art teacher and you just gave me a good way to deal with this.
Thanks!
Hmmm, in fact, I think I’ll say “There are a number of ways to pronounce Vince’s last name [quick demonstrations, with pause for chuckling after I ‘hock a lugie’ with the northern Dutch version], and if anyone wants, I’ll send them a link to a very thorough discussion from a little Message Board i’m fond of…”
Trust me, most if not all dutchmen know how to pronounce his name correctly (as it is done in the QI clip). Given that there is a whole bunch of regional accents in the Netherlands, which are well known among the Dutch, the pronounciation of his name might sound slightly different depending on where you are. You might be right that most dutchmen (who don’t live in Brabant) will pronounce it a bit ‘harder’ then Van Gogh did himself, but that doesn’t mean we can’t. If I wanted to I could start talking in an accent from Brabant, or the east, north, Amsterdam, The Hague, Haarlem, Rotterdam, Groningen, Friesland and the pronounciation of ‘Van Gogh’ will be slightly different each time.
PLease note that I would never be able to ‘fake it’ in any of these accents for any length of time, but I would certainly be able to do so for a few words. Just like any native American could do the same for a Boston, New York, Southern or Canadian accent. Just because you don’t adopt a Bostonian accent every time you mention JFK, doesn’t mean you are pronouncing it incorrectly.
The correct way is whatever way the majority of your listeners will understand you. So Van Go in the US, Van Gof/Goch in the UK. I hear Goch just as often as Goff in the UK - it’s the same sound as at the end of loch, so it’s not exactly an unfamiliar sound.
What? The American version ends in a vowel.
Yes, for Mexican Spanish, which is the most relevant, but Spanish Spanish (as in the country called Spain) pronounces it Meksiko.
I once met a member of Van Gogh’s family. He is an accountant, living in Sydney, and still has the surname himself. He pronounces it “Van Goff” (in the Commonwealth way of pronouncing short o sounds, not the American “aw” way.
I figure if it’s good enough for the family, it’s good enough for me.
