# What is the correct way to address a knighted person directly and how to refer indirectly? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 26, 2011, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-correct-way-to-address-a-knighted-person-directly-and-how-to-refer-indirectly/594234 "2011-08-26T22:02:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-correct-way-to-address-a-knighted-person-directly-and-how-to-refer-indirectly/594234/1 "2011-08-26T22:02:43Z")
If I were to write a letter to a knight whom I did not personally know, what would the correct way to address him be? Dear Sir Surname Dear Sir First Name Dear Sir First & Surname And while we’re at it, what other forms of address are there besides “Dear”, which implies some degree of intimacy, and “to”, which implies none at all? I mean in any letter, not just to a knight. And while we’re still at it, what are the answers to all these questions for Dames? Oh, and is it correct to refer to them as Knights and Dames? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-correct-way-to-address-a-knighted-person-directly-and-how-to-refer-indirectly/594234/2 "2011-08-26T22:09:36Z")
Here’s Debrett’s: [http://www.debretts.com/forms-of-address/titles/knight.aspx](http://www.debretts.com/forms-of-address/titles/knight.aspx) > [@](#): > > Beginning of letter : Dear Sir John > End of letter: Yours sincerely > Envelope : Sir John Smith (with the appropriate post-nominal letters) > Verbal communication : Sir John ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-correct-way-to-address-a-knighted-person-directly-and-how-to-refer-indirectly/594234/3 "2011-08-26T22:15:33Z")
Also, here’s Debrett’s on how to address a Dame: [http://www.debretts.com/forms-of-address/titles/dame.aspx](http://www.debretts.com/forms-of-address/titles/dame.aspx) > [@](#): > > Beginning of letter: Dear Dame Irene > End of letter: Yours sincerely > Envelope: Dame Irene White > Verbal communication: Dame Irene And, for the wife of a Knight, who would also be a Dame [http://www.debretts.com/forms-of-address/titles/knight/wife-of-a-knight.aspx](http://www.debretts.com/forms-of-address/titles/knight/wife-of-a-knight.aspx) > [@](#): > > Beginning of letter: Dear Lady Brown > End of letter : Yours sincerely > Envelope: Lady Brown > Verbal communication : Lady Brown ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-correct-way-to-address-a-knighted-person-directly-and-how-to-refer-indirectly/594234/4 "2011-08-26T22:25:30Z")
_Never_ use Sir or Dame with a surname alone under any circumstances. Either use both given name and surname or given name alone. ---
**Author:** ![HawksPath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f07891/32.png) [@HawksPath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HawksPath)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-correct-way-to-address-a-knighted-person-directly-and-how-to-refer-indirectly/594234/5 "2011-08-26T22:39:29Z")
As an American, the correct way is Mr. Surname or Mr. First Surname. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-correct-way-to-address-a-knighted-person-directly-and-how-to-refer-indirectly/594234/6 "2011-08-27T00:11:23Z")
> [@HawksPath](#): > > As an American, the correct way is Mr. Surname or Mr. First Surname. This. Royalty is a screwy concept that generally shouldn’t be encouraged. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-correct-way-to-address-a-knighted-person-directly-and-how-to-refer-indirectly/594234/7 "2011-08-27T00:38:57Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > This. Royalty is a screwy concept that generally shouldn’t be encouraged. Knights and Dames are not royalty. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-correct-way-to-address-a-knighted-person-directly-and-how-to-refer-indirectly/594234/8 "2011-08-27T01:10:17Z")
Plus, there are no laws about how you address such people. Debrett’s is just some book. True, the traditional etiquette is widely observed, but there’s nothing stopping anyone addressing Paul McCartney, say, as plain Mr. McCartney. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-correct-way-to-address-a-knighted-person-directly-and-how-to-refer-indirectly/594234/9 "2011-08-27T01:26:31Z")
> [@HawksPath](#): > > As an American, the correct way is Mr. Surname or Mr. First Surname. That’s not quite right. If the knighted person is an citizen of the United States, and a man, “Mr. Surname” is fine. However, if the person is a subject of the person bestowing the knighthood, one should address them by the highest title to which they are entitled, until requested otherwise. One should never address women, knighted or not, as ‘Mister’. It’s kind of bitchy. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-correct-way-to-address-a-knighted-person-directly-and-how-to-refer-indirectly/594234/10 "2011-08-27T01:28:12Z")
> [@HawksPath](#): > > As an American, the correct way is Mr. Surname or Mr. First Surname. Why would you not address someone by their form of address? And would you expect a reply after such a decision? It doesn’t display allegiance or subservience. It’s just like using Dr. or Lieutenant or any other title that someone had acquired. Would you refuse to use any foreign title or firm of address which wasn’t specifically awarded by your country? What about a Norwegian military officer or a Russian politician who had a title? Or, in short, what’s wrong with using someone’s title in formal communication? Would you not expect the same courtesy if you were a doctor or professor or captain or senator? Do you accept Mrs/Miss/Ms preferences? Sure, it’s not required or enforced by anyone. But it seems polite to me. I guess one argument I’ve heard is that it isn’t “earned”; whereas it is. Usually through civic, military, charitable, or artistic achievement. Maybe not by the same process and structure as in your own country, but it’s just as valid as Captain or Senator is in the US. Meh. I guess it doesn’t matter. I just find it curious when people take a stance against if as though it does matter. ---
**Author:** ![postcards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8e8cbc/32.png) [@postcards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/postcards)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-correct-way-to-address-a-knighted-person-directly-and-how-to-refer-indirectly/594234/11 "2011-08-27T02:34:48Z")
> [@j66](#): > > …If the knighted person is an citizen of the United States… I don’t think a US citizen (or anyone other than a British subject) is eligible for knighthood. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-correct-way-to-address-a-knighted-person-directly-and-how-to-refer-indirectly/594234/12 "2011-08-27T03:18:26Z")
> [@postcards](#): > > I don’t think a US citizen (or anyone other than a British subject) is eligible for knighthood. He is if he’s a dual citizen like Sir Sidney Poiteir or Dame Elizabeth Taylor. ---
**Author:** ![Kiwi\_Fruit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kiwi_fruit/32/12_2.png) [@Kiwi\_Fruit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiwi_Fruit)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-correct-way-to-address-a-knighted-person-directly-and-how-to-refer-indirectly/594234/13 "2011-08-29T02:49:53Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > And, for the wife of a Knight, who would also be a Dame > [http://www.debretts.com/forms-of-address/titles/knight/wife-of-a-knight.aspx](http://www.debretts.com/forms-of-address/titles/knight/wife-of-a-knight.aspx) As Debrett’s says, the wife of a knight is not a Dame, but may be referenced as such in legal documents. There is a US citizen who has an honorary knighthood in the NZ Order of Merit, and I’m sure that at least Ronald Reagan received an honorary one in some UK Order. They are not entitled to be addressed as ‘Sir Joe’ or whatever, though. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-correct-way-to-address-a-knighted-person-directly-and-how-to-refer-indirectly/594234/14 "2011-08-29T03:31:14Z")
Non-British subjects can have British honours conferred upon them, but they are “honorary”, and do not carry a title. Thus Bob Geldof has an honorary knighthood, but he is still plain Mr Geldof. ---
**Author:** ![cerberus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@cerberus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cerberus)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-correct-way-to-address-a-knighted-person-directly-and-how-to-refer-indirectly/594234/15 "2011-08-29T07:34:46Z")
And these “achievement/merit” titles are roughly analogous to honorary degrees in the US - they are nice to have, but are not earned degrees, and are not usable as credentials or titles. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-correct-way-to-address-a-knighted-person-directly-and-how-to-refer-indirectly/594234/16 "2011-08-29T07:45:20Z")
> [@HawksPath](#): > > As an American, the correct way is Mr. Surname or Mr. First Surname. Being American (or any other nationality) has nothing to do with it. > [@Candyman74](#): > > Why would you not address someone by their form of address? Because as an egalitarian, I try to avoid the use of titles which imply an inequality in social rank. > [@](#): > > And would you expect a reply after such a decision? I should hope that whatever matter I was writing upon would be considered on its substance and not on whatever honorifics or other fawning language I used to address the recipient. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-correct-way-to-address-a-knighted-person-directly-and-how-to-refer-indirectly/594234/17 "2011-08-29T17:29:50Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > Being American (or any other nationality) has nothing to do with it.Because as an egalitarian, I try to avoid the use of titles which imply an inequality in social rank.I should hope that whatever matter I was writing upon would be considered on its substance and not on whatever honorifics or other fawning language I used to address the recipient. I guess that’s how I see it differently. I don’t see it as fawning, or an implication of superiority. I can see why you would, though. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-correct-way-to-address-a-knighted-person-directly-and-how-to-refer-indirectly/594234/18 "2011-08-29T21:42:59Z")
Wrong thread. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-correct-way-to-address-a-knighted-person-directly-and-how-to-refer-indirectly/594234/19 "2011-08-30T01:12:50Z")
I’ve always just used “Dear Firstname Lastname” for all parties, and that’s worked fine for me. I can’t imagine why anyone would object. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-correct-way-to-address-a-knighted-person-directly-and-how-to-refer-indirectly/594234/20 "2011-08-30T01:34:13Z")
> [@postcards](#): > > I don’t think a US citizen (or anyone other than a British subject) is eligible for knighthood. I’m pretty sure the queen can knight whom ever she pleases. That whole royalty thing. But I will graciously defer to evidence to the contrary. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-correct-way-to-address-a-knighted-person-directly-and-how-to-refer-indirectly/594234.md?page=2)