# What is the correct way to address a knighted person directly and how to refer indirectly? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 26, 2011, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-correct-way-to-address-a-knighted-person-directly-and-how-to-refer-indirectly/594234 "2011-08-26T22:02:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-correct-way-to-address-a-knighted-person-directly-and-how-to-refer-indirectly/594234/61 "2011-09-01T04:28:03Z")
Adopt an outrageously fake French accent and address him as “You silly English Knnnnnnnn-ighut!” I can’t believe I’m the first to suggest this. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-correct-way-to-address-a-knighted-person-directly-and-how-to-refer-indirectly/594234/62 "2011-09-01T04:49:00Z")
Just to clarify something - in the vast majority of cases the queen does not choose who gets honours. She bestows them on the “advice” of the government. There are some smaller orders of chivalry in which honours are given out at the queen’s personal discretion, but knighthoods, damehoods etc. in the much larger Order of the British Empire, for example, are nominated by the government and submitted to the queen for rubber-stamping. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-correct-way-to-address-a-knighted-person-directly-and-how-to-refer-indirectly/594234/63 "2011-09-01T16:21:51Z")
> [@Kiwi\_Fruit](#): > > A number of the Commonwealth realms have their own orders which may or may not include knighthoods. Australia for instance does not have knighthoods in the Order of Australia but New Zealand does in the Order of New Zealand… The Order of Australia did briefly have knighthoods (12 knights & 2 dames were created), but those were abolised (not retroactively). The 2 surviving Australian knights retain their titles; one of who is better known as HRH the Prince of Wales. New Zealand abolised knighthoods under Helen Clark, then reinstated them under John Key. > [@Ximenean](#): > > Just to clarify something - in the vast majority of cases the queen does not choose who gets honours. She bestows them on the “advice” of the government. There are some smaller orders of chivalry in which honours are given out at the queen’s personal discretion, but knighthoods, damehoods etc. in the much larger Order of the British Empire, for example, are nominated by the government and submitted to the queen for rubber-stamping. The Order of the Garter, the Order of the Thistle, and the Royal Victorian Order are the only honours Her Majesty bestows at her own discretion; everything else is on “the advice” of her Prime Minister. This includes peerages (though I assume she has some discretion involving titles for her own family members). ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-correct-way-to-address-a-knighted-person-directly-and-how-to-refer-indirectly/594234/64 "2011-09-01T16:48:07Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > The Order of the Garter, the Order of the Thistle, and the Royal Victorian Order are the only honours Her Majesty bestows at her own discretion; everything else is on “the advice” of her Prime Minister. The Order of Merit is at Her Maj’s discretion too. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-correct-way-to-address-a-knighted-person-directly-and-how-to-refer-indirectly/594234/65 "2011-09-01T17:59:23Z")
> [@mac\_bolan00](#): > > when you say a “full knighthood,” i take it you mean he is to be addressed as ‘sir.’ naturally, gen. h. n. swartzkoph cannot be adressed as such, being an american. same with bob geldolf, being irish. but you’re saying anyone, whether english, welsh, scot or northern irish may enjoy the title and courtesy? what about citizens in commonwealth nations? People from England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland are all British citizens. The Honours system is not ‘English’, bestowed by the ‘Queen of England’ (no such position exists) upon ‘English Citizens’ (no such citizenship exists). But you knew that, right? As for commonwealth _Realms_ (countries which have Queen Elizabeth as Head of State as opposed to commonwealth _countries_ which include republics like India), each country has it’s own rules about whether it allows the Queen to bestow titles. Canada, for example, does not. The Bahamas, of which Sidney Poitier was a dual citizen, presumably allows titles, as he is routinely referred to as ‘Sir’. ---
**Author:** ![hoffman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@hoffman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hoffman)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-correct-way-to-address-a-knighted-person-directly-and-how-to-refer-indirectly/594234/66 "2011-11-15T23:41:15Z")
I am an English guy and I would never dream of calling somebody Sir or Lord or whatever other than Mr. It is an outdated system to create social devision. The majority of those knighted do not get their knighthood because of outstanding achievement but more a case of an outstanding ability to creep for the establishment and moderate achievement. Brian ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-correct-way-to-address-a-knighted-person-directly-and-how-to-refer-indirectly/594234/67 "2011-11-16T12:40:28Z")
> [@hoffman](#): > > I am an English guy and I would never dream of calling somebody Sir or Lord or whatever other than Mr. It is an outdated system to create social devision. The majority of those knighted do not get their knighthood because of outstanding achievement but more a case of an outstanding ability to creep for the establishment and moderate achievement. > Brian What is the correct way to address a knight who is also a zombie? ---
**Author:** ![hoffman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@hoffman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hoffman)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2011, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-correct-way-to-address-a-knighted-person-directly-and-how-to-refer-indirectly/594234/68 "2011-11-19T23:09:12Z")
Mr Zombie of course > [@Raguleader](#): > > What is the correct way to address a knight who is also a zombie? ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2011, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-correct-way-to-address-a-knighted-person-directly-and-how-to-refer-indirectly/594234/69 "2011-11-20T02:03:25Z")
> [@hoffman](#): > > Mr Zombie of course I would have gone for “OH PLEASE STOP BITING ME I’M SORRY FOR COMPLAINING ABOUT THE WARM SODA HEEEEEELP!” ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2011, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-correct-way-to-address-a-knighted-person-directly-and-how-to-refer-indirectly/594234/70 "2011-11-20T03:02:37Z")
> [@hoffman](#): > > ITh majority of those knighted do not get their knighthood because of outstanding achievement but more a case of an outstanding ability to creep for the establishment and moderate achievement. > Brian Cite? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-correct-way-to-address-a-knighted-person-directly-and-how-to-refer-indirectly/594234/71 "2011-11-21T08:46:06Z")
Calling people something other than what they want to be called is rude. It’s really that simple. There are no fringe cases. The only reason to not call someone by their title is if you intend to insult them (hence why I avoid using the title Governor Palin). I don’t understand why so many people get so bent out of shape over what other people like to be called. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-correct-way-to-address-a-knighted-person-directly-and-how-to-refer-indirectly/594234/72 "2011-11-21T10:37:24Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Calling people something other than what they want to be called is rude. It’s really that simple. There are no fringe cases. The only reason to not call someone by their title is if you intend to insult them (hence why I avoid using the title Governor Palin). > > I don’t understand why so many people get so bent out of shape over what other people like to be called. In that case, please be advised of my desire that you refer to me as “Your Most Serene and Majestic Holiness” when addressing me, using the “His…” variant when referring to me in the third person in the first instance, or a parenthetical “(may peace always be upon him and his family)” if you are using only the third-person pronoun for subsequent references. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-correct-way-to-address-a-knighted-person-directly-and-how-to-refer-indirectly/594234/73 "2011-11-21T11:00:12Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > In that case, please be advised of my desire that you refer to me as “Your Most Serene and Majestic Holiness” when addressing me, using the “His…” variant when referring to me in the third person in the first instance, or a parenthetical “(may peace always be upon him and his family)” if you are using only the third-person pronoun for subsequent references. Actually, it’s social convention rather than individual preference that determines which honorifics or titles various individuals are “entitled” to, so to speak. **Within** the constraints of those conventions, the preference of the individual being addressed trumps the preference or prejudices of the individual doint the addressing. Thus, politeness does not require anybody to comply with your deliberately silly request to be addressed as “Your Most Serene and Majestic Holiness”, since by standard conventions you’re not entitled to any such form of address in polite conversation. (Whatever you can persuade your own family and/or friends to call you in intimate or informal conversation, of course, is fair game.) But **BigT** is quite right that **among** the names, titles and honorifics whose use is approved by etiquette for a particular individual, that individual gets to decide which one s/he prefers to be called by: it’s as simple as that. Consequently, we’d be rude if we insisted on calling you, say, “ButtonBunny” instead of **psychonaut** , but it’s not rude of us to call you **psychonaut** instead of “Serene Holiness”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-correct-way-to-address-a-knighted-person-directly-and-how-to-refer-indirectly/594234.md?page=3)