# What is the crime history of Zimmerman's neighborhood he was "watching"? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 19, 2013, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-crime-history-of-zimmermans-neighborhood-he-was-watching/663988 "2013-07-19T23:13:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-crime-history-of-zimmermans-neighborhood-he-was-watching/663988/41 "2013-07-21T02:18:42Z")
> [@sugaree](#): > > This 402 number is also a fact I hear thrown around a lot. May I have a source please? I got the number from the March 21, 2012 Miami Herald article I linked. The article cites 402 calls for service to the Retreat at Twin Lakes and refers to police records. > [@](#): > > The answer may lie in police records, which show that 50 suspicious-person reports were called in to police in the past year at Twin Lakes. There were eight burglaries, nine thefts and one other shooting in the year prior to Trayvon’s death. > > In all, police had been called to the 260-unit complex 402 times from Jan. 1, 2011 to Feb. 26, 2012. The article generally cites interviews as well as quotes specifically attributed to lawyers representing Trayvon Martin’s family. The 46 calls number comes from a report compiled by the Seminole County Sheriff’s Office. ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-crime-history-of-zimmermans-neighborhood-he-was-watching/663988/42 "2013-07-21T02:37:50Z")
> [@toyo](#): > > Zimmerman may have profiled Trayvon due to past burglaries committed by black males in the neighborhood, but it’s difficult to label him a racist based on his past actions. > > [http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/23/justice/florida-teen-shooting](http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/23/justice/florida-teen-shooting) > > Zimmerman criticized Standford police for covering up a black homeless man’s beating by a white teenager. > [http://www.kitv.com/news/national/Tape-showed-Zimmerman-s-anger-over-black-man-s-beating/-/8905418/14084642/-/10xbisk/-/index.html](http://www.kitv.com/news/national/Tape-showed-Zimmerman-s-anger-over-black-man-s-beating/-/8905418/14084642/-/10xbisk/-/index.html) > > “A black female neighbor has publicly stated that George Zimmerman was the only person, black or white, who welcomed her to the community.” > [http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ama-yawson/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin\_b\_1399944.html](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ama-yawson/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin_b_1399944.html) > > Zimmerman’s old MySpace page had several black friends. > [http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2138238/Travon-Martin-case-George-Zimmermans-unseen-2005-MySpace-page-includes-slurs-Mexicans.html](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2138238/Travon-Martin-case-George-Zimmermans-unseen-2005-MySpace-page-includes-slurs-Mexicans.html) So, that’s why the talking heads I’ve been listening to are downplaying the chances of Fed civil rights/ hate crime charges. And as per Tom Tildrums first link, he had black family and had lived with black kids his grandmother cared for… [Zimmerman’s maternal grandmother, Cristina, who had lived with the Zimmermans since 1978, worked as a babysitter for years during Zimmerman’s childhood. For several years she cared for two African-American girls who ate their meals at the Zimmerman house and went back and forth to school each day with the Zimmerman children. “They were part of the household for years, until they were old enough to be on their own,” Post said.] ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-crime-history-of-zimmermans-neighborhood-he-was-watching/663988/43 "2013-07-21T03:37:06Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > Why bother? Even if hard evidence falls on your head, you will deny it. As far as citing how about gzs storyline? He said tm was pounding his head so hard he almost felt he would black out, yet det cerino stated his injurIes didnt support that story, he didnt have any skull fractures. What is gzs “cite” for just about every thing he claimed happened? Just him sayin so…Why the hell didnt he go to the ER after, since he claimed his calls were to “save his life” from being almost beaten to death…yet, that same life wasnt worth a trip to the ER? He knew of course the ER doctors wouldnt find evidence of injuries consistent with such a brutal beating.. But I’m not endorsing everything Zimmerman says as true. I believe Zimmerman lied about several key points. So it doesn’t do you any good to win a debate with me by saying it’s all right for you to make claims that aren’t true, because Zimmerman did it too. I agree that Zimmerman did it. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-crime-history-of-zimmermans-neighborhood-he-was-watching/663988/44 "2013-07-21T06:16:49Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > He said tm was pounding his head so hard he almost felt he would black out, yet det cerino stated his injurIes didnt support that story, he didnt have any skull fractures. I’m not really on either side of this thing, but this logic is ridiculous. Do you know what causes people to lose consciousness when hit in the head? It has absolutely nothing to do with whether the skull gets fractured or not. I watched one of my kids friends get knocked out, no fracture, no blood. ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-crime-history-of-zimmermans-neighborhood-he-was-watching/663988/45 "2013-07-21T06:54:01Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > A [relevant post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16443851&postcount=923)of mine from one of those huge threads: > > So George Zimmerman made about 2% of the reports for that neighborhood over that period of time. > > Most of Zimmerman’s 46 calls were not related to matters within the Retreat at Twin Lakes neighborhood. Either way, thats a hell of alot of calls…I was talking to someone about this. In my whole life I have called 911 maybe 4 or 5 times, and never for things like a dip in the road, or trash, or a garage door open. I called 911 to call for help for things such as when I thought there was an intruder in the house I was housesitting for, fights and a grease fire. ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-crime-history-of-zimmermans-neighborhood-he-was-watching/663988/46 "2013-07-21T06:58:21Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > I’m not really on either side of this thing, but this logic is ridiculous. > > Do you know what causes people to lose consciousness when hit in the head? > > It has absolutely nothing to do with whether the skull gets fractured or not. I watched one of my kids friends get knocked out, no fracture, no blood. I was knocked out once, years ago in high school, but “knocked out” is a different thing than having someone straddle you and repeatedly bash your head on the asphalt, and especially that many times. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-crime-history-of-zimmermans-neighborhood-he-was-watching/663988/47 "2013-07-21T07:54:34Z")
This is the[most accurate reporting of the calls GZ made](http://www.thefacultylounge.org/2013/07/what-do-zimmermans-calls-to-police-show-about-his-view-of-black-men-.html)- both to the non emergency police number and 911. > [@](#): > > 8/12/04: Reports male driving pick-up without car seat > 9/20/04: Neighbor’s garage door open > 8/20/04: Reports white male walking in the road carrying a paper bag, presumably drinking > 3/17/05: Pothole > 4/27/05: Neighbor’s garage door open > 9/21/05: Stray dog > 9/23/05: Couldn’t reach his sister by phone > 11/4/06: Reports pick-up driving around apartment complex for last five minutes “driving real slow looking at all the vehicles in the complex and blasting music” > 6/24/07: Two Hispanic males and one white male loitering near pool; officer spoke to them and determined were locked out of their vehicle > 10/14/07: Possible intentional damage to his car tire; thinks he knows who did it > 11/25/07: Reports disturbance involving his ex-roommate, a white male > 1/5/09: Fire alarm going off > 3/12/09: Requests patrol outside his home for a week while he’s away > 5/4/09: Reports blue Audi; unclear why > 6/10/09: Fire alarm going off > 6/16/09: People jumping over the fence and going into the pool area, playing basketball, trashing the bathroom; reports make and model of car > 8/21/09: Disturbance involving landlord over rent and foreclosure > 8/26/09: Male driving without headlights > 9/7/09: Pothole > 9/22/09: Speed bike doing wheelies, speeding and weaving in and out of traffic > 10/23/09: Pitbull > 11/21/09: Referring to unclear past event, GZ says subject is in front of his residence > 11/3/09: White male driver in county vehicle cutting people off > 1/1/10: White male having loud verbal dispute with female in back of pick-up > 1/12/10: Neighbor’s garage door open, “very unlike his neighbor” > 2/27/10: Reports residence in complex where multiple vehicles are constantly coming to the residence; unknown subjects run out to the vehicles and run back inside; the subjects are always outside with the garage open and hang out all night, an ongoing problem; unknown who lives at that address; GZ advises there are constantly different people > 4/28/10: Vehicle obstructing road > 6/12/10: At least 50 subjects GZ doesn’t think live at complex are in the clubhouse & pool areas having a party, causing road obstructions > 6/26/10: Approximately 50 subjects are having a loud party and blocking the street > 10/2/10: Female driver yelling at elderly passengers, unknown if altercation is physical, vehicle was rocking back and forth > 11/8/10: Trash in roadway, appears to contain glass > 11/26/10: Motion alarm tripped while GZ is out of town > 3/18/11: Pitbull in his garage > 4/22/11: Black male 7-9 years old walking alone unsupervised on busy street; GZ “concerned for well being” > 5/27/11: GZ’s alarm tripped while he’s at work > 8/3/11: Black male on foot at back entrance of neighborhood last seen wearing white tank top and black shorts; GZ believes he’s involved in recent burglaries in neighborhood; GZ says he matches the description that was given to police > 8/6/11: Two black male teens near back gate of neighborhood, one wearing black tank top and black shorts, 2nd wearing black t-shirt and jeans; GZ says they’re the ones who have been burglarizing the area and predicts subjects will run into the subdivision next to his complex > 9/23/11: Open garage door; GZ notes he’s part of neighborhood watch and is concerned about recent burglaries in area; had a neighborhood watch meeting previous night with Sgt. Herx who advised him to report anything suspicious > 10/1/11: Two black males approx 20-30 years old appear to be loitering in their car at gate of community at 1 am; GZ doesn’t recognize subjects or vehicle and is concerned due to recent burglaries in the area > 12/10/11: White male with shaved head at club house in black Mercedes was hired by GZ to serve food at an event but then GZ replaced him and subject seemed upset and wants to be paid; GZ has never met him in person; GZ’s wife will meet with police when they arrive > 1/29/12: Five or six kids, ages 4-11 years, running and playing in the street and running out in front of cars > 2/2/12: Black male wearing black leather jacket, black hat, and printed PJ pants keeps going to the residence of a white male; unclear what he’s doing; subject was gone when police arrived > 2/26/12 [TRAYVON MARTIN]: Black male, late teens, dark gray hoodie, jeans or sweatpants, walking around area; GZ concerned about recent burglaries ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-crime-history-of-zimmermans-neighborhood-he-was-watching/663988/48 "2013-07-21T08:41:20Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > Either way, thats a hell of alot of calls…I was talking to someone about this. In my whole life I have called 911 maybe 4 or 5 times, and never for things like a dip in the road, or trash, or a garage door open. I called 911 to call for help for things such as when I thought there was an intruder in the house I was housesitting for, fights and a grease fire. As I noted, based upon my experience working in a 9-1-1 center, 46 calls over approximately 8 years is chump change. That’s not going to put Zimmerman in the hall of fame for 911 frequent callers. We have several dozen callers who have called more than that just this year alone. But 402 calls over 14 months or so is a sign of a neighborhood with problems. Every jurisdiction will have neighborhoods with clusters of calls and other areas where police are rarely summoned. Sounds to me like The Retreat at Twin Lakes is a bit of a hotspot, particularly evaluating that on the basis of overall call volume for the Sanford PD. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-crime-history-of-zimmermans-neighborhood-he-was-watching/663988/49 "2013-07-21T10:10:47Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > Either way, thats a hell of alot of calls…I was talking to someone about this. In my whole life I have called 911 maybe 4 or 5 times, and never for things like a dip in the road, or trash, or a garage door open. I called 911 to call for help for things such as when I thought there was an intruder in the house I was housesitting for, fights and a grease fire. Why _wouldn’t_ you call if you thought a neighbour’s garage had been broken into? Sounds like the exact time you’d be expected to call. Or do you just not give a shot about your neighbours? ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-crime-history-of-zimmermans-neighborhood-he-was-watching/663988/50 "2013-07-21T16:07:26Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Why _wouldn’t_ you call if you thought a neighbour’s garage had been broken into? Sounds like the exact time you’d be expected to call. Or do you just not give a shot about your neighbours? Wouldn’t it make more sense to talk to your neighbors first? Check and see if they’re home and if there’s some legitimate reason the garage door is open? I mean, my neighbor was concerned when she saw that one of our kitchen windows had the screen removed and was slightly open and the garbage toter was pulled up under the window. And rightly so; it looked like a setup for someone to climb into our house through the open window. She _could_ have called the police and had them spend time coming out to take a statement from her, and look at things, and take a statement from us and yadda yadda yadda. But what she _did_ was to walk across the yard and knock on our door, at which point she found out a cat had gotten out that window and **DoctorJ** had set things up to make it easier for the little beast to climb back in if he showed up. I just have a really, really hard time envisioning the neighbor relationship wherein you care enough to call the cops about someone else’s property, but aren’t willing to spend 2 minutes talking to them. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-crime-history-of-zimmermans-neighborhood-he-was-watching/663988/51 "2013-07-21T16:29:50Z")
> [@CrazyCatLady](#): > > Wouldn’t it make more sense to talk to your neighbors first? Check and see if they’re home and if there’s some legitimate reason the garage door is open? I mean, my neighbor was concerned when she saw that one of our kitchen windows had the screen removed and was slightly open and the garbage toter was pulled up under the window. And rightly so; it looked like a setup for someone to climb into our house through the open window. She _could_ have called the police and had them spend time coming out to take a statement from her, and look at things, and take a statement from us and yadda yadda yadda. But what she _did_ was to walk across the yard and knock on our door, at which point she found out a cat had gotten out that window and **DoctorJ** had set things up to make it easier for the little beast to climb back in if he showed up. > > I just have a really, really hard time envisioning the neighbor relationship wherein you care enough to call the cops about someone else’s property, but aren’t willing to spend 2 minutes talking to them. Well, yeah, I assume that comes with thinking they’d been broken into. However, if you know they’re usually out at that time of day, or their car’s not there, or some other sign that they’re not in, it makes sense to call the police, rather than approach a house that may still contain a criminal. There’s been plenty of complaints about Zimmerman approaching a suspicious person, now there’s complaints about him not doing so… ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-crime-history-of-zimmermans-neighborhood-he-was-watching/663988/52 "2013-07-21T16:38:18Z")
> [@CrazyCatLady](#): > > Wouldn’t it make more sense to talk to your neighbors first? Check and see if they’re home and if there’s some legitimate reason the garage door is open? I mean, my neighbor was concerned when she saw that one of our kitchen windows had the screen removed and was slightly open and the garbage toter was pulled up under the window. And rightly so; it looked like a setup for someone to climb into our house through the open window. She _could_ have called the police and had them spend time coming out to take a statement from her, and look at things, and take a statement from us and yadda yadda yadda. But what she _did_ was to walk across the yard and knock on our door, at which point she found out a cat had gotten out that window and **DoctorJ** had set things up to make it easier for the little beast to climb back in if he showed up. > > I just have a really, really hard time envisioning the neighbor relationship wherein you care enough to call the cops about someone else’s property, but aren’t willing to spend 2 minutes talking to them. Yes, I mean, isnt that common sense? But he needs to be in control…also, there were neighbors who had become very uncomfortable with his style of acting like he was in charge of the neighborhood, rather than just another neighbor who was willing to keep an eye on things…thats the difference. He didnt think of himself as another person who lived there, he felt he was over the neighborhood. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-crime-history-of-zimmermans-neighborhood-he-was-watching/663988/53 "2013-07-21T16:46:29Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > There’s been plenty of complaints about Zimmerman approaching a suspicious person, now there’s complaints about him not doing so… Not having a great deal of interest in people, I should be unlikely to make any of the calls in Bone’s list; however I can imagine that a neighbourhood watch captain who observed those things would be in severe trouble were there awful consequences and he was shown to have had that knowledge yet refused to act on it. ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-crime-history-of-zimmermans-neighborhood-he-was-watching/663988/54 "2013-07-21T16:55:40Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > There’s been plenty of complaints about Zimmerman approaching a suspicious person, now there’s complaints about him not doing so… You left out a critical piece of the story and you seemed to have largely missed the point. Rather than relating to people in the community as an equal, who has agreed to volunteer to keep an eye on things, he sees himself as a superior, an ‘authority’ figure and likes to be in control over others. When you volunteer to be a part of a neighborhood watch program, you are not ‘in charge’ of people, as a sort of super dominant alpha wanna be cop, you are just an equal, a civilian, who is keeping an eye on things, you are not vested with some sort of authority to oversee and control others. Years ago when our neighborhood had a program like this, the volunteers simply kept an eye out and IF there was something truly suspicious that looked of a critical nature, they would call police, but never are they invested with a fake authority to act as a cop. So, the volunteer position gz held there did not magically vest him with the powers of law enforcement, he was only another neighbor. But he took it to a whole other level that WAS NOT HIS to take to begin with. When he saw tm that night, he was just another person in the community, he was NOT law enforcement, but in his grandiose power hungry mind, he made himself what he wanted to be. The ONLY thing, if he was truly wondering who tm was, the only damn thing he had a right to do, was to identify who the hell he was to tm “hi, my name is George…I live around here and am on a volunteer watch program, I dont remember seeing you around, and was wondering are you lost, or ?” We can and should take it back to the genesis of how the whole thing started, because it goes to his state of mind AND HIS INTENT. ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-crime-history-of-zimmermans-neighborhood-he-was-watching/663988/55 "2013-07-21T17:00:23Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > Not having a great deal of interest in people, I should be unlikely to make any of the calls in Bone’s list; however I can imagine that a neighbourhood watch captain who observed those things would be in severe trouble were there awful consequences and he was shown to have had that knowledge yet refused to act on it. I’m going to guess you aren’t familiar with how neighborhood watch works. There is no legal obligation. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-crime-history-of-zimmermans-neighborhood-he-was-watching/663988/56 "2013-07-21T17:16:45Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > I was knocked out once, years ago in high school, Ok, assuming you didn’t have a skull fracture this sound like you agree your previous quote was bogus, good. > [@](#): > > but “knocked out” is a different thing than having someone straddle you and repeatedly bash your head on the asphalt, and especially that many times. WTF? Your previous quote said he couldn’t have almost blacked out from having his head hit because there was no skull fracture…then you agree that skull fracture is not required…then you respond with this point that seems to say “knocked out” is different from what is being discussed? What point are you trying to make and please try again, this makes absolutely no sense. ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-crime-history-of-zimmermans-neighborhood-he-was-watching/663988/57 "2013-07-21T18:00:52Z")
I want to expand a bit on the state of mind of both gz and tm that night. State of mind is important, right? When a crime has been committed, especially an assault or a homicide, state of mind can lay at the heart of the case. In looking to state of mind, we can try to retrace both the victim and defendants actions that night leading up to the killing. Tm, is at home watching the game, and at half time wants to run out to the 711 to grab something to drink and asks his younger step brother if he wants anything and agrees to get him the bag of skittles he asks tm for. His story is clear, and there is no doubt even to the defense, that is what tms purpose was in going out that night. Then we look to see what was gz doing out that night. You know what, to start with, its kind of funny that he said he thought it was suspicious for tm to simply be walking along that evening, because it had started to rain. But he himself chooses to wait until after 7 pm to go grocery shopping, when it was raining. In fact, i think Im going to start a thread on just a whole bunch of shit that has a question mark at the end, and admittedly, musings on common sense things in gzs story that doesnt make sense. Common sense is important, as the lead prosecutor pointed out, common sense does count for alot, we mostly use just common sense (and my own addition here, intuition or a hunch) about any number of things that we come across in life. Anyways, I think I will start that thread, but for this post, The point about state of mind and the beginning point where tm and gzs paths cross. Tm we know as fact undisputed even by gzs paid pitbull lawyers, was simply running out to grab snacks during halftime. He is also talking during that last trip of his life, to his friend DeeDee. He tells her by the time he got back to the entrance of the neighborhood, it had started to rain, and so he takes cover under a mail kiosk. That is when he first notices gz looking at him. Ok, now to gz. His alibi is that he happened to be right there, right where tm was, across the street in his car when he sees him. Well, how did he happen to be right at the place and time where tm is? I think Tripolar posted here or another thread how that is convenient, that gz just so happened to be out there that night. But I digress, so,…gz tells detectives he had been on his way out that sunday night to do weekly grocery shopping at target. Seems like kind of an unusual time, although yes I know some people go grocery shopping on sunday nights, but ok, he tells them he was going out at that time, in the rain to do grocery shopping. If you look at a map, the road that he would take from his condo would run up the left side to the entrance, and then go out left on the main road to where target would be, along with 711. Is it a reasonable thing to wonder about, how was it, if he was just driving up the road that runs to the very left of the neighborhood, how it is that he happened to see tm to begjn with? If he was not volunteering that night on neighborhood watch as he said, then he would not be just crusing around the streets or parked anywhere. He would simply make his way quickly along up to the entrance and drive out and turn left. So how is it that he found himself, in another area of the neighborhood slowly driving about? If Im not mistaken, the place he claims to have seen tm does not match up with his alibi that he was on his way out to the main road to go to Target. This is alot longer than I intended to write, so I will just try to narrow down my point here, which is the purpose of both parties being where they were to begin with. Tms purpose which was undisputed by everyone, was to simply get back home with the snacks, give his step brother the candy he bought for him and watch the game. Gzs purpose he said in being out that night was to go to Target, since he stated he was not scheduled to be on watch that night. But that doesnt to me, match up with what ensued. If he was on his way out to do a weeks worth of grocery shopping for him and his wife,and its already after 7, how is it that instead of making a straight path up to the exit and driving out to Target, how is it that instead he found himself milling about in a different area of the neighborhood ? Put it this way, nobody including the defense has ever disputed tms single purpose in being out that night, to get back with the snacks and finish watching the game. But, there have been questions about gzs reason for being out that night. And then when he did see tm, he was just another person, gz was not the police or the FBI, or God, he was just another dude who happened to live there. The fact that he volunteered himself to keep an eye on things didnt authorize or deputize him to act with any type of authority whatsoever. The only role given to nw is to keep an eye on things. Mindset says alot. Even if you buy his story that he just so happened to see tm as he was on his way to target, (I dont and will explain more later why I dont) , it still does not explain why gz didnt simply say hello and identify himself to tm and ask if he was lost, or if he could help him. He didnt do that because he wasnt interested in simply finding out if tm was ok, he wanted to harm him I know now Im the bad guy for implying he was a racist…boo hoo! You called him a racist, boo hoo, take it back! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-crime-history-of-zimmermans-neighborhood-he-was-watching/663988/58 "2013-07-21T18:07:14Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > Yes, I mean, isnt that common sense? But he needs to be in control…also, there were neighbors who had become very uncomfortable with his style of acting like he was in charge of the neighborhood, rather than just another neighbor who was willing to keep an eye on things…thats the difference. He didnt think of himself as another person who lived there, he felt he was over the neighborhood. Too true. One such witness, 89-yr-old Elsie Pumpkinhead, not only had suffered under the Zimmerman Reign of Terror ( when he asked her not to throw gasoline on her lit barbeque to clean it ); but testified he was planning to found The Zimmerman Republic with thousands of inexplicably loyal armed goons when the lights went out. It later transpired she was a deluded old hysterical fool who’d been watching too much TV the previous night. > [@Hbns](#): > > I’m going to guess you aren’t familiar with how neighborhood watch works. Prolly not. > [@](#): > > There is no legal obligation. No doubt; however it is not beyond possibility that some people in your country might sue if a watchman blankly ignored their 4-yr-old playing in the road who was then killed by a speeding car. ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-crime-history-of-zimmermans-neighborhood-he-was-watching/663988/59 "2013-07-21T18:32:49Z")
Raft people, Im sorry but Im confused about your question and what it is your confused about? My comment was that the Detective did not find gzs injuries to be consistent with what gz claims to have been inflicted with. Having ones head repeatedtly bashed into the pavement ( gzs claim) did not match up with what Cerino would have expected to see on gz, and didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-crime-history-of-zimmermans-neighborhood-he-was-watching/663988/60 "2013-07-21T18:38:03Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > Tm, is at home watching the game, and at half time wants to run out to the 711 Wrong, right off the bat. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-crime-history-of-zimmermans-neighborhood-he-was-watching/663988.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-crime-history-of-zimmermans-neighborhood-he-was-watching/663988.md?page=4)