# What is the current state of the Hell's Angels? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 16, 2004, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-current-state-of-the-hells-angels/255376 "2004-07-16T05:36:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-current-state-of-the-hells-angels/255376/61 "2004-07-21T13:22:39Z")
Snakespirit, this is a GQ thread replying to “What is the current state of the Hell’s Angels?” You have presented what you know. I have presented what I know. Debating whether the Hell’s Angels is fundamentally a criminal organization or not, rather than simply pointing out the current state of Hell’s Angels, does not futher this thread. According, I will not continue. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-current-state-of-the-hells-angels/255376/62 "2004-07-21T13:30:20Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Snakespirit, this is a GQ thread replying to “What is the current state of the Hell’s Angels?” You have presented what you know. I have presented what I know. > > Debating whether the Hell’s Angels is fundamentally a criminal organization or not, rather than simply pointing out the current state of Hell’s Angels, does not futher this thread. According, I will not continue. Good for you then **Muffin** but we both know we answered the question. YES the Hells Angels are still very much a criminal outfit…even if they are not where the OP and **snakespirit** are. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-current-state-of-the-hells-angels/255376/63 "2004-07-21T15:10:06Z")
For a debate on guilt by association and the law in Canada, I have started a Great Debates thread: “Canada’s anti-organized crime law” at [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=5089358#post5089358](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=5089358#post5089358) ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-current-state-of-the-hells-angels/255376/64 "2004-07-21T15:52:34Z")
**Snakespirit** please clarify. Are you saying that HA is not a criminal oranization? No one said that all bikers are criminals. I know plenty of cops who ride and belong to clubs. I also know of plenty of organized crime groups whose members ride bikes. Not all clubs are criminal but some are. HA is a criminal group. ---
**Author:** ![Bongmaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Bongmaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bongmaster)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-current-state-of-the-hells-angels/255376/65 "2004-07-21T16:33:36Z")
Hunter S Thompson spent some time with them back in the day and wrote a book about it. Nasty bunch, but quite different today than they were back when it started: [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0345410084/qid=1090427541/sr=ka-2/ref=pd\_ka\_2/102-8348538-2040154](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0345410084/qid=1090427541/sr=ka-2/ref=pd_ka_2/102-8348538-2040154) ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-current-state-of-the-hells-angels/255376/66 "2004-07-21T16:41:10Z")
> [@Bongmaster](#): > > Hunter S Thompson spent some time with them back in the day and wrote a book about it. Nasty bunch, but quite different today than they were back when it started: > > [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0345410084/qid=1090427541/sr=ka-2/ref=pd\_ka\_2/102-8348538-2040154](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0345410084/qid=1090427541/sr=ka-2/ref=pd_ka_2/102-8348538-2040154) Maybe not there. Here they are organised crime. ---
**Author:** ![SnakeSpirit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snakespirit/32/7271_2.png) [@SnakeSpirit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakeSpirit)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-current-state-of-the-hells-angels/255376/67 "2004-07-22T01:01:41Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > **Snakespirit** please clarify. Are you saying that HA is not a criminal oranization? No one said that all bikers are criminals. I know plenty of cops who ride and belong to clubs. I also know of plenty of organized crime groups whose members ride bikes. Not all clubs are criminal but some are. HA is a criminal group. Clarification: I don’t know all the chapters of the Hell’s Angels. I know some individual Angels who are not currently participating in criminal activities and are not involved in organized crime. I do not doubt one bit that there are chapters of the club that are criminals in every sense of the word. I also know first hand that there are other biker clubs that are criminals, and others that are not. This is not the Mafia here. The amount of organization that is being imagined here just does not exist. On local levels, however, I’m sure it does. I don’t doubt what **Muffin** says, I just object to the blanket application. I don’t believe that the H.A. are a criminal organization (defined as being formed for the purpose of criminal activity). Many, maybe even most, chapters took that road. If they’re criminal, do what ya gotta do. If they’re not, leave them alone. That ain’t so hard. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-current-state-of-the-hells-angels/255376/68 "2004-07-22T05:06:13Z")
> [@PaulFitzroy](#): > > Organized crime in general is weak in today’s modern times; as a whole, I’d wager that the average big corporation is more corrupt and more exploitative than the Hell’s Angels or any other group. > > Think about this: did the Hell’s Angels ever take $300 out of your paycheck? > > I’d rather pay protection money to the Mafia than have a confiscatory income tax. Sorry man, gotta disagree with you. Speaking as someone who lives in a hotbed of “Redfella” activity, I honestly believe that the “Russian Mob” is just as bad, and just as criminal as both the HA and my former employer EDS. ---
**Author:** ![PaulFitzroy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/2acd7d/32.png) [@PaulFitzroy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulFitzroy)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-current-state-of-the-hells-angels/255376/69 "2004-07-22T05:09:15Z")
I think that the Hell’s Angels are probably too obvious to control a big part of the drug trade. This is just my opinion, but they seem too easy a target for them to be dealing major weight. ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-current-state-of-the-hells-angels/255376/70 "2004-07-22T10:26:42Z")
Read the Globe and Mail articles (just write ‘hells’ into the search engine at [www.GlobeandMail.com](http://www.GlobeandMail.com)) and your notions will be changed. According to the convictions, the Angels are major players in the illegal drug trade, and have hundreds, if not thousands, of people working underneath their control. ---
**Author:** ![Welfy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e56c9b/32.png) [@Welfy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Welfy)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2004, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-current-state-of-the-hells-angels/255376/71 "2004-07-26T15:50:53Z")
> [@Snakespirit](#): > > Lots of outlaw bikers aren’t a menace. Lots act that way just to be left alone. Some are a menace, but it’s nothing to do with being an outlaw. > > And don’t give me that “guilt by association” bullshit. That’s just like racism: “Someone’s a biker so they deserve to be harassed.” You can shove that criminal attitude where the sun don’t shine. Or maybe in your country they harass blacks and jews, too? > > You know the reason why outlaw bikers are called outlaw bikers? An organization called “The American Motorcycle Association” appointed itself as the rulemaking body for all motorcyclists. “All riders must wear helmets” and all that shit. As I already said, we don’t like being told what to do, so we formed our own clubs, not in the AMA, hence named “outlaw.” You don’t have to be a lawbreaker to be an “outlaw.” > > I will own that lots of outlaw bikers are lawbreakers. So are lots of lawyers, politicians, doctors, sports heroes, movie stars and every one else. > > Don’t judge people by the clothes they wear, what they drive or ride, their politics or other superficial things. Judge them by what they do. From what you say it sounds like you got some real criminals up there, but don’t mind me if I take what you say with a grain of salt – sounds like you are prejudiced. Here here. My boyfriend and I “live to ride” and would ride the Harley everywhere if gas wasn’t so expensive and if it didn’t rain here almost every day. We wear the leather and go to biker gatherings, and the boy’s parents go to Hell’s Angels parties in Cleveland and never experienced any problems except for the cigarette smoke. :^) At the same time, we’ve been treated with less respect in some establishments because of how we are dressed. We’ve gotten a lot of eye-rolling and people backing away when we enter a room, even though we look totally normal save the leather jackets. People really need to get a grip. And I definitely agree with “not all bikers are outlaws.” What about the Christian Motorcyclists Association? They have chapters all over America and into Canada and the UK. Some of them have the tattoos, the beards, and the long hair, and others look like regular old joes, but all of them are good people. My dad was in the CMA before he died, and someday I’d like to learn how to ride myself and join in honor of him. They even have a biker church because some of the bikers do not feel comfortable in regular churches because of how people might perceive them. Where do you live? Not ALL of us wear helmets anymore. :^) in Ohio, there is no helmet law, and where we live, Pennsylvania, a helmet law was passed just last summer. The boyfriend NEVER wears a helmet anymore, but I do. It’s my choice and if others don’t wish to wear helmets, that’s fine. I like that we have that choice though. Chad’s mother just rear-ended an SUV a month ago and lost her front teeth, and no helmet could have saved that. Heh, ever notice that if you’re in a car accident or anything else, people will feel bad for you, but if you’re on a motorcycle and get into an accident, people just shake their head and say, “Serves you right!” I don’t think that’s very nice to say, but it’s amusing all the same. ---
**Author:** ![teleute12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@teleute12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teleute12)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2004, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-current-state-of-the-hells-angels/255376/72 "2004-07-26T16:40:59Z")
> [@Welfy](#): > > Chad’s mother just rear-ended an SUV a month ago and lost her front teeth, and no helmet could have saved that. Seems to me that a full-face helmet would’ve gone a long way towards preventing an injury like that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-current-state-of-the-hells-angels/255376.md?page=3)