# What is the deal with the Masons? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 24, 2002, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-deal-with-the-masons/133728 "2002-10-24T19:17:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Dadeville\_English](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@Dadeville\_English](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dadeville_English)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2002, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-deal-with-the-masons/133728/1 "2002-10-24T19:17:39Z")
Are they considered to be sort of creepy and mysterious because of stories like “The Cask of Amontillado” by E. A. Poe, or vice-versa? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2002, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-deal-with-the-masons/133728/2 "2002-10-24T19:40:42Z")
They’re a secret society that doesn’t let non-Masons see their rituals, so people use their imaginations and get all these wild creepy theories about Masons making secret plans for world domination, or doing nasty, obscene things, with the logic “If you’re not doing anything wrong, why can’t we see?” Mormons run up against the same thing, as did Christians and members of mystery cults in the Roman Empire, and teenage boys in the bathroom ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2002, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-deal-with-the-masons/133728/3 "2002-10-24T19:51:47Z")
That’s exactly what they’d _like_ you to think… ---
**Author:** ![h.sapiens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e0b2c6/32.png) [@h.sapiens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/h.sapiens)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2002, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-deal-with-the-masons/133728/4 "2002-10-24T20:23:15Z")
“Who controls the British crown, Who keeps the metric system down? We do, we do.” Sorry, I couldn’t help myself. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2002, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-deal-with-the-masons/133728/5 "2002-10-24T21:15:16Z")
The Masonic Fraternity is in no way a secret society. Its meeting places are public and it is not uncommon for a Lodge of Masons to announce their meeting times in newspapers. Members of the Masonic Fraternity do not conceal their association with the fraternity. Many members wear rings or other jewlery that cleary identifies them as being members. Secrect Societies are those that are hidden from the public view and whose members will deny their association. Calling the Masonic Fraternity a “Secret Society” does nothing to dispell ignorance. Quite the opposite, in fact. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2002, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-deal-with-the-masons/133728/6 "2002-10-24T21:32:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by LouisB \* > \*\* > Secrect Societies are those that are hidden from the public view and whose members will deny their association. Calling the Masonic Fraternity a “Secret Society” does nothing to dispell ignorance. Quite the opposite, in fact. \*\* Members of a Secret Society can deny their affiliation, but the term is also used, as I did in my post, to refer to organizations that keep their rituals private and don’t reveal them to non-members, or to those members who haven’t achieved a certain rank or level. If you think the term is inappropriate, what would you call groups that reserve knowledge of certain rituals to the initiated. I’m not using the term derogatively, and I hope you don’t think I am. ---
**Author:** ![japatlgt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df705f/32.png) [@japatlgt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/japatlgt)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2002, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-deal-with-the-masons/133728/7 "2002-10-24T21:44:23Z")
They’re good folks. Don’t believe the conspiracy crap. [Cite](http://www.californiamasons.org/) ---
**Author:** ![Bromley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4da419/32.png) [@Bromley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bromley)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2002, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-deal-with-the-masons/133728/8 "2002-10-24T22:17:59Z")
lol. You can hardly call a link to a Mason’s site an unbiased cite. If I could be bothered to trawl through all the filth, I bet it’s possible to find a KKK site that makes similar claims (i.e. “We’re not anti-Black so much as we’re pro-White” etc.). Not that I’m saying the Masons are the root of all evil or are out to rule the world (although as I’ve just started The Messianic Legacy, that may change 😃 ). The main charge usually levelled against the Masons is that the second vow that your link mentions - “to help a brother when he asks for and needs help” - has been abused in the past and has encouraged nepotism. ---
**Author:** ![Eutychus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Eutychus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eutychus)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2002, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-deal-with-the-masons/133728/9 "2002-10-24T22:47:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Captain Amazing \* > \*\* > > Members of a Secret Society can deny their affiliation, but the term is also used, as I did in my post, to refer to organizations that keep their rituals private and don’t reveal them to non-members, or to those members who haven’t achieved a certain rank or level. If you think the term is inappropriate, what would you call groups that reserve knowledge of certain rituals to the initiated. > > I’m not using the term derogatively, and I hope you don’t think I am. \*\* There is nothing private nowadays about masonic rituals. Pretty much anything you ever wanted to know about Masonry has been published and can be found after a halfway dilligent search. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-deal-with-the-masons/133728/10 "2002-10-25T03:52:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eutychus \* > \*\* > > There is nothing private nowadays about masonic rituals. Pretty much anything you ever wanted to know about Masonry has been published and can be found after a halfway dilligent search. \*\* Yeah, but they’re still supposed to be kept quiet, right? And, there’s not much anti-masonic feeling anymore, as far as I know, except among some fundimentalist Christians, who object to Masonry’s ecumenicism, and some Catholics who object to its liberalism. It’s nothing like 150-200 years ago, when there were even anti-Masonic political parties. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-deal-with-the-masons/133728/11 "2002-10-25T05:41:26Z")
**Cecil Adams** on [What’s the story on Freemasonry?](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a4_138.html) ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-deal-with-the-masons/133728/12 "2002-10-25T06:29:31Z")
My father was a Mason for years. I think that he left because it was exclusive and he just didn’t like discrimination of any sort. Once I found his manual and read parts of it. They had the silliest rituals that I have ever seen. But sinister? No way! ---
**Author:** ![scm1001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@scm1001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scm1001)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-deal-with-the-masons/133728/13 "2002-10-25T13:52:38Z")
The society is not sinister as such, but exists for the good of its members (as oppossed to say a charity). Most of the time it is harmless, However it is possible to get on its wrong side. My brother in law worked in London as a structural engineer. After insulting a high mason on a project, he lost his job and was unable to find work and had to go to Paris. He found out later what had happened through a friend who was also a Mason. The sort of charges usually levelled at Masons include favourtism for jobs or contracts or in court. ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-deal-with-the-masons/133728/14 "2002-10-25T14:21:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Captain Amazing \* > \*\*And, there’s not much anti-masonic feeling anymore, as far as I know, except among some fundimentalist Christians, who object to Masonry’s ecumenicism, and some Catholics who object to its liberalism. \*\* Could you provide cites to support any of these claims? ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-deal-with-the-masons/133728/15 "2002-10-25T14:27:29Z")
I just read a good book called The New World Order by A. Ralph Eperson in which he quotes lots of Masons, who say that after you reach higher degrees, or are consdiered worthy of the secret info, they DO worship Lucifer. I beleive this, too. If you can find the book please check it out. Hold on, lemme get a link. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-deal-with-the-masons/133728/16 "2002-10-25T14:33:17Z")
link [http://www.bibleprobe.com/freemasonry.htm](http://www.bibleprobe.com/freemasonry.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Papermache\_Prince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f05b48/32.png) [@Papermache\_Prince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Papermache_Prince)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-deal-with-the-masons/133728/17 "2002-10-25T14:39:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dadeville English \* > \*\*Are they considered to be sort of creepy and mysterious because of stories like “The Cask of Amontillado” by E. A. Poe, or vice-versa? \*\* Of course, in the story mentioned above, the Mason (member of a secret society) is the victim of the mason (bricklayer), in what I assume is a macabre wordplay. “You do not comprehend?” he said. “Not I,” I replied. “Then you are not of the brotherhood.” “How?” “You are not of the masons.” “Yes, yes,” I said; “yes, yes.” “You? Impossible! A mason?” “A mason,” I replied. “A sign,” he said, “a sign.” “It is this,” I answered, producing a trowel from beneath the folds of my roquelaire. “You jest,” he exclaimed, recoiling a few paces. “But let us proceed to the Amontillado.” “Be it so,” I said, replacing the tool beneath the cloak and again offering him my arm. Several paragraphs later the narratorseals his drunken enemy in the crypt. [The Project Gutenberg Etext](http://ibiblio.org/gutenberg/etext97/1epoe10.txt) of several works by Edgar Allan Poe The Raven, The Masque of the Red Death, The Cask of Amontillado ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-deal-with-the-masons/133728/18 "2002-10-25T15:10:15Z")
_they DO worship Lucifer._ Hmmm. I doubt they even believe in the existence of Lucifer, though I’m sure the Christians who accuse others of worshiping him do. The cite from a fundementalist Christian site hardly strikes me as objective evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-deal-with-the-masons/133728/19 "2002-10-25T15:23:16Z")
I dunno, I am a Master Mason. I never took an oath to help my brothers in any unlawful way. I certainly don’t worship Satan. When you align yourself with the anti-Mason your are in company of Stalin, Mao, Hitle and Pat Robinson. If you are Mason your companions are Jerry Ford, Mozart, Wren and a ton of others. Take your pick. Like my new signature? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-deal-with-the-masons/133728/20 "2002-10-25T15:29:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by everton \* > \*\* > Could you provide cites to support any of these claims? \*\* As for traditional Catholic opposition to Masonry being based on it’s liberalism, see the Catholic Encyclopedia’s (from 1911, I believe) entry on Masonry here: [http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09771a.htm](http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09771a.htm) > [@](#): > > This system [Scottish rite Masonry], which was propagated throughout the world, may be considered as the revolutionary type of the French Templar Masonry, fighting for the natural rights of man against religious and political despotisms, symbolized by the papal tiara and a royal crown. It strives to exert a preponderant influence on the other Masonic bodies, wherever it is established > [@](#): > > The following are deemed the principal means: (1) To destroy radically by open persecution of the Church or by a hypocritical fraudulent system of separation between State and Church, all social influence of the Church and of religion, insidiously called “clericalism”, and, as far as possible, to destroy the Church and all true, i.e., superhuman religion, which is more than a vague cult of fatherland and of humanity; (2) To laicize, or secularize, by a likewise hypocritical fraudulent system of “unsectarianism”, all public and private life and, above all, popular instruction and education. “Unsectarianism” as understood by the Grand Orient party is anti-Catholic and even anti-Christian, atheistic, positivistic, or agnostic sectarianism in the garb of unsectarianism. Freedom of thought and conscience of the children has to be developed systematically in the child at school and protected, as far as possible, against all disturbing influences, not only of the Church and priests, but also of the children’s own parents, if necessary, even by means of moral and physical compulsion. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-deal-with-the-masons/133728.md?page=2)