# What is the degree of Atheist responsibility to challenge belief? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 14, 2012, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-degree-of-atheist-responsibility-to-challenge-belief/634707 "2012-09-14T17:06:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-degree-of-atheist-responsibility-to-challenge-belief/634707/201 "2012-09-18T01:34:13Z")
> [@Scotty Mo](#): > > Atheism is a lack of belief in god or any organized religion. This was your default. No one had any preconceived ideas about god when they were born. Right, there’s no two year old Christian just like there is no such thing as a two year old democrat. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-degree-of-atheist-responsibility-to-challenge-belief/634707/202 "2012-09-18T01:37:49Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > Nooooo… I do not believe in any kind of god. I’m therefore an atheist. I also do not believe that no god of any kind exists, since no one has offered convincing evidence for _that_ proposition. I’m therefore also an agnostic. Okay. > [@](#): > > Some atheists insist on the nonexistence of any god. Those atheists have a ‘belief system’. They believe (without adequate evidence, IMO) that there is no god. Those are the kind I’m referring to who are posting on this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-degree-of-atheist-responsibility-to-challenge-belief/634707/203 "2012-09-18T01:49:47Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > Nooooo… I do not believe in any kind of god. I’m therefore an atheist. I also do not believe that no god of any kind exists, since no one has offered convincing evidence for _that_ proposition. I’m therefore also an agnostic. > > Some atheists insist on the nonexistence of any god. Those atheists have a ‘belief system’. They believe (without adequate evidence, IMO) that there is no god. You _might_ be able to make an argument that such a ‘belief system’ is similar to religion > [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Those are the kind I’m referring to who are posting on this thread. Reminder: take this discussion to another thread. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-degree-of-atheist-responsibility-to-challenge-belief/634707/204 "2012-09-18T07:03:12Z")
> [@Scotty Mo](#): > > Atheism is a lack of belief in god or any organized religion. This was your default. No one had any preconceived ideas about god when they were born. I’m not sure that’s correct - In the first few years of life, we’re predisposed to accept the authority, direction and care of benevolent, powerful, unknowable beings called ‘parents’. That’s obviously not an argument for the existence of God/s, but I think it’s probably inaccurate to say that everyone starts off with an open mind. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-degree-of-atheist-responsibility-to-challenge-belief/634707/205 "2012-09-18T12:57:04Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > That’s obviously not an argument for the existence of God/s, but I think it’s probably inaccurate to say that everyone starts off with an open mind. But you certainly start out without the concept of any god, that is enough. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-degree-of-atheist-responsibility-to-challenge-belief/634707/206 "2012-09-18T16:30:07Z")
Only in the sense that _concepts_, of any kind, aren’t something a newborn infant can grasp. You could just as well argue that _all_ of a newborn infant’s concepts are about God. It’s a vacuous truth either way. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-degree-of-atheist-responsibility-to-challenge-belief/634707/207 "2012-09-18T17:33:40Z")
> [@Scotty Mo](#): > > I’d like to see these polls. > > I guess if I had to pick one of your options, they would be “exceptions to the rule.” The funny thing is I haven’t ever met someone who hated me for being atheist. If someone did, I would consider that an exception. [Here’s a study from the University of Minnesota.](http://atheism.about.com/od/atheistbigotryprejudice/a/AtheitsHated.htm) Even after 9/11, we’re less trusted than Muslims. [Here’s another one](http://digitaljournal.com/article/315425), referring to a study from the University of B.C. Only rapists were less trusted than atheists. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-degree-of-atheist-responsibility-to-challenge-belief/634707/208 "2012-09-18T17:59:07Z")
Do we have any stats as to how atheists were regarded back when we kept quiet and behaved ourselves? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-degree-of-atheist-responsibility-to-challenge-belief/634707/209 "2012-09-18T18:24:42Z")
I would assume most people didn’t believe we existed, like the Yeti or its North American cousin the Sasquatch. The idea that someone could not believe in any creation myth and any god, that mankind is the highest achievement in life this universe has created, is impossible to some ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-degree-of-atheist-responsibility-to-challenge-belief/634707/210 "2012-09-18T18:38:28Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > [Here’s a study from the University of Minnesota.](http://atheism.about.com/od/atheistbigotryprejudice/a/AtheitsHated.htm) Even after 9/11, we’re less trusted than Muslims. [Here’s another one](http://digitaljournal.com/article/315425), referring to a study from the University of B.C. Only rapists were less trusted than atheists. Wow. That is absurd. I just don’t understand it. You got three major religions (Christianity, Judaism, Islam) and a long history of hundreds of other religions that all basically say the same thing and in many cases have the same story and they don’t see the hypocrisy and implausibility. I’m starting to think that the reason I don’t see all the hate is because I’m not very open or forward about it, and often shy away from conversations about god. I’m a young, white guy. Most people probably just assume I’m Christian. Der Trish is right about one thing. Atheism is a direct threat to all religions. At least with the other religions, they are on the same page. They believe in God but just have conflicting versions, rules, laws, practices, etc.. Also, I bet a lot of it has to do with the deep-seeded “doubt” that believers feel but refuse to acknowledge. Cognitive Dissonance can really fuck with your psyche I guess. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-degree-of-atheist-responsibility-to-challenge-belief/634707/211 "2012-09-18T18:42:18Z")
> [@Scotty Mo](#): > > Der Trish is right about one thing. Atheism is a direct threat to all religions. At least with the other religions, they are on the same page. They believe in God but just have conflicting versions, rules, laws, practices, etc.. Yet somehow they have found reasons to wage war, kill, torture, massacre, and otherwise persecute each other for thousands of years. Not quite “on the same page.” Perhaps that’s more true today. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-degree-of-atheist-responsibility-to-challenge-belief/634707/212 "2012-09-18T18:46:29Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Yet somehow they have found reasons to wage war, kill, torture, massacre, and otherwise persecute each other for thousands of years. Not quite “on the same page.” Perhaps that’s more true today. And in most of those conflicts, atheists were persecuted by _both_ sides. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-degree-of-atheist-responsibility-to-challenge-belief/634707/213 "2012-09-18T18:52:34Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Perhaps that’s more true today. snip. It wouldn’t surprise me if it is. In the past, the relative lack of access to education and information meant that there was little informed atheism outside of the well-educated; which in western society meant the wealthy and privileged. There simply wasn’t the access to differing worldviews that anyone in a technologically capable country now has the ability to contact. Online information sources mean that searching for facts now takes seconds instead of hours or days in the library. It has already been shown that there is a strong correlation between higher education and atheism, and it is likely that the widespread information boom is causing people all over the globe to question folk truths like never before. They have access to like-minded people for support online, and social media makes it possible for them to exchange ideas, or even meet up. Additionally, the societal penalties for atheism in most western countries are no non-existent, or limited to social ostracism, rather than outright criminality or predjudice. ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-degree-of-atheist-responsibility-to-challenge-belief/634707/214 "2012-09-18T19:01:36Z")
Do pushy religious or non religious people ever tire of hearing the same thing coming out of their mouths over and over again? Or does it give you a certain thrill to degenerate another person’s belief or lack of belief? How about getting something else to live for other than trying to make everyone else around you feel bad for how they live their life. Just a thought. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-degree-of-atheist-responsibility-to-challenge-belief/634707/215 "2012-09-18T19:03:38Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And in most of those conflicts, atheists were persecuted by _both_ sides. So were religious groups. Few targeted just one religion. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-degree-of-atheist-responsibility-to-challenge-belief/634707/216 "2012-09-18T19:05:20Z")
> [@April\_R](#): > > Do pushy religious or non religious people ever tire of hearing the same thing coming out of their mouths over and over again? Or does it give you a certain thrill to degenerate another person’s belief or lack of belief? > > How about getting something else to live for other than trying to make everyone else around you feel bad for how they live their life. > > Just a thought. Yeah! Both sides do it equally, so they should both knock it off and everything will be alright. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-degree-of-atheist-responsibility-to-challenge-belief/634707/217 "2012-09-18T19:07:09Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > So were religious groups. Few targeted just one religion. Can you name any that targeted other religions but specifically left out atheism? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-degree-of-atheist-responsibility-to-challenge-belief/634707/218 "2012-09-18T19:08:23Z")
> [@April\_R](#): > > Do pushy religious or non religious people ever tire of hearing the same thing coming out of their mouths over and over again? Or does it give you a certain thrill to degenerate another person’s belief or lack of belief? > > How about getting something else to live for other than trying to make everyone else around you feel bad for how they live their life. > > Just a thought. If an equal number of atheists and religionists knocked it off, what do you think would happen? ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-degree-of-atheist-responsibility-to-challenge-belief/634707/219 "2012-09-18T19:16:58Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If an equal number of atheists and religionists knocked it off, what do you think would happen? World Peace Then there wouldn’t be anything for beauty pageant contestants to wish for ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2012, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-degree-of-atheist-responsibility-to-challenge-belief/634707/220 "2012-09-18T19:23:07Z")
> [@April\_R](#): > > Do pushy religious or non religious people ever tire of hearing the same thing coming out of their mouths over and over again? If people tired of repeating themselves there wouldn’t be too many debate forums on the Internet. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-degree-of-atheist-responsibility-to-challenge-belief/634707.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-degree-of-atheist-responsibility-to-challenge-belief/634707.md?page=12)