# What is the Democrats' strategy behind not supporting McCarthy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 4, 2023, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-democrats-strategy-behind-not-supporting-mccarthy/991075 "2023-10-04T01:25:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-democrats-strategy-behind-not-supporting-mccarthy/991075/41 "2023-10-04T18:20:26Z")
I was born 15 years too late! My career’s for naught! Waaaah! ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-democrats-strategy-behind-not-supporting-mccarthy/991075/42 "2023-10-04T18:26:30Z")
To be fair…he did succeed at becoming Speaker. Sold his soul for it but he got it. He’s in the history books. If I were him I’d just retire now. He has a net worth of $30 million. Plenty to go sip umbrella drinks somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-democrats-strategy-behind-not-supporting-mccarthy/991075/43 "2023-10-04T18:30:35Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > To be fair…he did succeed at becoming Speaker. Sold his soul for it but he got it. He’s in the history books. Yeah, he’s [third to the top of the list of speakers who served the shortest time](https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/matt-gaetz-kevin-mccarthy-house-speakership-10-03-23/h_520b98c470f92cb5952bb10f6ea1918f). I am sure he’s proud of that one. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-democrats-strategy-behind-not-supporting-mccarthy/991075/44 "2023-10-04T18:35:18Z")
He beat out the guy who served for one day after someone resigned. The other one that he beat (by two weeks) died of consumption. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-democrats-strategy-behind-not-supporting-mccarthy/991075/45 "2023-10-04T18:51:03Z")
One can always hope. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-democrats-strategy-behind-not-supporting-mccarthy/991075/46 "2023-10-04T19:16:02Z")
McCarthy has done a lot kowtowing and glad-handling - he might enjoy the life of a lobbyist who could provide his clients with a legit inside track to basically the entire GOP caucus. TPM reader presents the case for the Dems supporting McCarthy. GOP rules say that one member can make a motion to vacate. The 6 man Gaetz tail has been wagging the GOP dog since January. If 12 Dems vote for Big Kev, then it’s the centrist Dems that become the tail. Swing voters get all the power. [https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/a-contrary-view-3](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/a-contrary-view-3) Too clever by more than half I say. Any problem-solving centrist Dem to vote for Kev will be preening as a builder, not a bomb thrower. Threats against the Speaker will be less than credible. Moreover, there’s no prudent reason for the GOP to hand the reins over to the Dems this early. Not when Scalise (aka David Duke without the baggage) and a few others are waiting in the wings. Also, would allegedly moderate Republicans prefer Jim Jordan to voting with the Democrats for GOP-House Speaker? I think so. The fundamentals driving this dysfunction are first-past-the-post GOP primaries, which reward tribalism and aren’t really about policy. Expect more of the same until the primary system is eliminated (won’t happen) or the first-past-the-post voting system is reformed (is happening, slowly). Heck, Gaetz might have been prompted to do this stunt by Trump, who has his own weird legal calculations in mind. Gaetz is about TV apperances and messaging, not legislative leverage or strategy. TPM article is a 4 pointer, more complex than my summary, and worth reading. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-democrats-strategy-behind-not-supporting-mccarthy/991075/47 "2023-10-04T19:29:30Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Heck, Gaetz might have been prompted to do this stunt by Trump Maybe Gaetz thinks House of Cards is a documentary and this is his first step to eventually replacing Trump as President in early 2026. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-democrats-strategy-behind-not-supporting-mccarthy/991075/48 "2023-10-04T19:30:24Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Heck, Gaetz might have been prompted to do this stunt by Trump, who has his own weird legal calculations in mind. Trump is always a loose cannon but, right now, he wants out of his legal woes. Become president, threaten to wreck the government, whatever it takes he’ll go for it. No bridge is too far for Trump. He has a useful idiot in Gaetz…Trump will happily make use of that. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-democrats-strategy-behind-not-supporting-mccarthy/991075/49 "2023-10-04T19:31:52Z")
I think you grossly underestimate the Repubs “ability” here. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-democrats-strategy-behind-not-supporting-mccarthy/991075/50 "2023-10-04T19:50:38Z")
I agree. I think Gaetz’ only strategy here is doing what’s best for Gaetz. And right now that means tapping into the MAGA donations base. If he can convince them he’s Trump’s white knight, they’ll give him millions. And maybe get him elected Governor. Gaetz’ problem is that Trump’s only strategy is doing what’s best for Trump. And Trump’s pretty dumb. He may decide that those donations being sent to Gaetz are money that should belong to him and that could lead to a falling out. ---
**Author:** ![gnarator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gnarator/32/8266_2.png) [@gnarator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarator)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-democrats-strategy-behind-not-supporting-mccarthy/991075/51 "2023-10-04T20:03:29Z")
Kevin McCarthy is blaming Nancy Pelosi, who he claims said she would support him if the FC ever came calling for him. This may be behind her being stripped of her hideaway office. Supposedly [some Republicans are angry at the Democrats](https://www.axios.com/2023/10/03/problem-solvers-caucus-mccarthy-removal-speaker) for not backing McCarthy: “GOP members in the group are furious at their Democratic colleagues who voted to remove McCarthy. The Republicans say he was punished for ‘doing the right thing’ after advancing a stopgap funding bill on a bipartisan basis.” I’ve been hearing for years, though, that Kevin McCarthy is a weasel. Adam Schiff has a story about trying to work with McCarthy when he first came to congress, and getting blindsided by McCarthy. Other Democrats say he is not trustworthy, with several openly calling him a liar. He broke a deal with the White House and Democrats back in June, would not bring the bipartisan Senate deal up for a vote, and went on the Sunday shows and called the Democrats “communists,” and blamed them for the shutdown crisis. I’m not surprised they voted to remove him, given the chance. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-democrats-strategy-behind-not-supporting-mccarthy/991075/52 "2023-10-04T20:37:51Z")
Republicans deserve no credit for _not_ shutting down the government, whether the agreement was bipartisan or not. A government shutdown was not something that would happen on its own. It would only happen if Republicans conjured it up out of nowhere. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-democrats-strategy-behind-not-supporting-mccarthy/991075/53 "2023-10-04T20:42:55Z")
[![](https://i.imgur.com/jjI1JuP.jpg) ](https://i.imgur.com/jjI1JuP.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-democrats-strategy-behind-not-supporting-mccarthy/991075/54 "2023-10-04T20:52:48Z")
> [@gnarator](#): > > Supposedly [some Republicans are angry at the Democrats](https://www.axios.com/2023/10/03/problem-solvers-caucus-mccarthy-removal-speaker) for not backing McCarthy: Personally, I’d say that their job as problem solvers would have been to stand up for Speaker of the House, trying to represent a bipartisan option. None of them did or - as best I can tell - even tried to feel out the possibility, back when McCarthy was barely elected. At some point, the Representatives need to punish their own electorates for forcing bad choices on them. If the voters going to punish their representatives for going across their aisle, no matter the reason, then that’s just going to screw up the country that we all live in. Blocking good and fair ideas because the “enemy” approves of them is self-destructive. Their voters need to be taught better and talked back to. That’s part of [the job description](https://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/fed10.asp#:~:text=a%20chosen%20body%20of%20citizens%2C%20whose%20wisdom%20may%20best%20discern%20the%20true%20interest%20of%20their%20country%2C%20and%20whose%20patriotism%20and%20love%20of%20justice%20will%20be%20least%20likely%20to%20sacrifice%20it%20to%20temporary%20or%20partial%20considerations.). ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-democrats-strategy-behind-not-supporting-mccarthy/991075/55 "2023-10-04T21:08:56Z")
From [https://www.congressionalinstitute.org/2020/12/28/how-the-house-elects-its-speaker-2/:](https://www.congressionalinstitute.org/2020/12/28/how-the-house-elects-its-speaker-2/:) > It is exceptionally rare for a Member-elect to vote for the other party’s candidate. The last to do so was the colorful, late [**Jim Traficant**](http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2001/roll002.xml), a Democrat from Ohio, who voted for Speaker J. Dennis “Denny” Hastert in 2001. The Democrats responded by [**refusing to assign him to any committees**](http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0101/04/cf.00.html), making him the first rank-and-file Member without committee assignments in almost [**100 years**](https://web.archive.org/web/20190630024542/https:/www.vindy.com/news/2014/sep/28/controversial-sheriff-congressman-succumbs-after-f/). ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-democrats-strategy-behind-not-supporting-mccarthy/991075/56 "2023-10-04T21:09:29Z")
McCarthy will always be known as the Liz Truss of Speakers. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-democrats-strategy-behind-not-supporting-mccarthy/991075/57 "2023-10-04T21:14:21Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Personally, I’d say that their job as problem solvers would have been to stand up for Speaker of the House, trying to represent a bipartisan option. The Democrats’ job was to stand up for the Republican speaker? In what way was McCarthy bi-partisan? Didn’t he spend the weekend talk shows calling the Dems communists and blaming the near shutdown on them? Shouldn’t he have reached out for help if he wanted it? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-democrats-strategy-behind-not-supporting-mccarthy/991075/58 "2023-10-04T21:19:47Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > The Democrats’ job was to stand up for the Republican speaker? The Republicans in the Problem Solver’s caucus. The “problem”, in the case of the vote to elect the Speaker of the House, was radicals in the Republican wing. With the Rs in the majority, a leader would need to come from the R side. To gain a majority that could oppose the radicals, that person would need to gain some support from Democrats. That rule pretty squarely places the onus on Republicans in the Problem Solver’s caucus. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-democrats-strategy-behind-not-supporting-mccarthy/991075/59 "2023-10-04T21:23:21Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > McCarthy will always be known as the Liz Truss of Speakers. McCarthy lasted 269 days. Depending on whether we’re talking about a US Scaramucci of 10 days or an Imperial Scaramucci of 11 days (sources differ on the correct value), McCarthy was good for 26.9 US Scaramuccis or 24.5 Imperial Scaramuccis. In the immortal words of another infamous politician: > See, not so short. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-democrats-strategy-behind-not-supporting-mccarthy/991075/60 "2023-10-04T21:23:44Z")
Got it. Thanks for clarifying. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-democrats-strategy-behind-not-supporting-mccarthy/991075.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-democrats-strategy-behind-not-supporting-mccarthy/991075.md?page=4)