# What is the Democrats' strategy behind not supporting McCarthy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 4, 2023, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-democrats-strategy-behind-not-supporting-mccarthy/991075 "2023-10-04T01:25:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-democrats-strategy-behind-not-supporting-mccarthy/991075/121 "2023-10-06T02:16:51Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Half of Congress (actually, a bit more than half) wants the government to fail. **That** is the problem we are facing. I believe that it is more something like 5-12 members, out of a group of 535. Just as possibly, the reason why no one has done the sane thing is because everyone keeps saying what you’re saying and hasn’t stopped to ask who actually agrees with all this crap. Ceasing from all the endorsements for the race to the bottom might be the secret to saving the country. You won’t know if you don’t try. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-democrats-strategy-behind-not-supporting-mccarthy/991075/122 "2023-10-06T02:24:20Z")
Then explain why the rest of the R party delegation is not denouncing Gaetz in public and/or doing something behind the scenes to shut him & his ilk down? Clearly they approve of what he’s done / is doing. Or, and practically it amounts to the exact same thing, they are afraid to show non-support of Gaetz for some reason. Can we articulate that reason? If not we’re just throwingup our hands and saying “It’s a mystery” Oh, and the relevant denominator is not 535. It’s however many Rs there are. And by their silence they’re demonstrating that it really is about 260 Rs who are happy (enough) w Gaetz to let him continue to run wild. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-democrats-strategy-behind-not-supporting-mccarthy/991075/123 "2023-10-06T02:26:46Z")
But they _are_ going after Gaetz: > **[Gaetz getting ‘Cawthorned’ as Republican exposes details of his alleged...](https://www.rawstory.com/raw-investigates/gaetz-getting-cawthorned-as-republican-exposes-details-of-his-alleged-misconduct/)** > > After taking down Speaker of the House Kevin McCarthy and throwing the U.S. House of Representatives into greater chaos, U.S. Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-FL) is starting to face a fate similar to the now-former and one-term GOP Congressman from North... > [@](#): > > CNN Wednesday night Mullin described Gaetz as “a guy the media didn’t give the time of day to after he was accused of sleeping with an underage girl. And there’s a reason why no one in the [Republican] conference came and defended him, because we had all seen the videos he was showing on the House floor that all of us had walked away, of the girls that he had slept with. He bragged about how he would crush E.D. medicine and chase it with the with an energy drink so he could go all night.” ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-democrats-strategy-behind-not-supporting-mccarthy/991075/124 "2023-10-06T02:49:59Z")
If the Republicans want to marginalize the most rabid of their members, take them out of any positions of real power, and try to compromise to get **something** actually done aside from ripping apart whatever the Democrats do, then I might see them as a group of actual legislators who just have different goals and ideas from the Democrats. Until then, they just look like saboteurs who are only there to try to destroy everything and try to blame Biden for it. Making Gaetz a pariah is a good first step. But just the first. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-democrats-strategy-behind-not-supporting-mccarthy/991075/125 "2023-10-06T03:08:58Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Here is the offer I would make to the Republican members of the problem solvers caucus. You talk among yourselves and decide which of you wants to be speaker. We will support this candidate and with your help elect them speaker. Once in place we will use our votes to protect him from any votes to remove from Gaetz and the freedom cuacus going forward. In return, you will work with us to put of the bi-partisan Senate budget to a floor vote and pass it. After that you are free to run the house as you see fit. You can try to pass tax cuts, impeach Biden, whatever, so long as your keep your wrongness within fairly normal parameters. This deal lasts until the next Congress at which point we see where things stand. > > I don’t > [@susan](#): > > Since McCarthy reneged on agreements he made with Democrats, I expect the response would be, “Yeah! Sure thing! Okey-dokey!” and then any bipartisan plans will be ignored. I was thinking the same as @susan. The Republicans in the Problem Solvers Caucus get something now, in return for a promise to do things for Democrats later. So it depends on how much you trust them to keep their word, or whether you can include provisions to punish them if they renege. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-democrats-strategy-behind-not-supporting-mccarthy/991075/126 "2023-10-06T03:16:32Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Clearly they approve of what he’s done / is doing. Or, and practically it amounts to the exact same thing, they are afraid to show non-support of Gaetz for some reason. I think it is the latter. There are plenty of examples of republicans trying to stand up to these nutjobs and, in most cases, they get stomped on for opposing the crazy faction. Those who stand-up may still be awful…but a different and somehow lesser awful. There is no coherent opposition so the Freedumb Caucus and their voters just pick them off one-by-one. (America First is barely better…but still “better”…baby steps.) There needs to be an internal riot (not literal riot) at the Republican National Convention…make people take sides and solve what the republican party really is today). ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-democrats-strategy-behind-not-supporting-mccarthy/991075/127 "2023-10-06T03:21:47Z")
IDK about that, the dems can themselves use a motion to vacate to blow up a problem solvers republican speakership. And whoever took the speaker job (really probably every republican who supported it) would be in political no mans land as soon as it ends. So they would have an enormous incentive to stick to the promised agenda. Unfortunately that’s likely also why it’s still an enormous long-shot to happen. They’re probably not going to put their political careers on the line when hopefully someone else can solve the problem (ironically) and this can all blow over like in previous leadership fights. One thing that can be hoped for is that the threat of a unity caucus is actually serious enough that the GOP moderates can go to the freedom caucus and say you have to give us some concessions or we can cross the aisle and make you irrelevant. The freedom caucus acts as though only they have the ability to leverage the party and you would think (or hope in desperation) tthat someone else in the party at some point would realize this. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-democrats-strategy-behind-not-supporting-mccarthy/991075/128 "2023-10-06T03:34:11Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > IDK about that, the dems can themselves use a motion to vacate to blow up a problem solvers republican speakership. Only if the rule stays in place which has such a low bar to bring a motion to vacate. I don’t see anything preventing the Republicans from making this deal, electing a Speaker from the Problem Solvers Caucus, and then instituting the old rule that says that a motion to vacate only happens when a majority of Republicans vote for it. Maybe the Republicans in that Caucus have enough integrity to stick to the deal, or the Democrats can find a way to hold them to it. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-democrats-strategy-behind-not-supporting-mccarthy/991075/129 "2023-10-06T03:43:19Z")
The new leader would need a majority vote to change the rule, right? If I were a Democrat, I’d consider making a deal with a group of republicans like this, with my main red lines being that the rules still give a single caucus member the right to file a MTV, and enough important committee positions/representation numbers for democrats to have some other enforcement (I think probably as close as possible to parity in the rules committee would make sense). After that I think it would only take a few relatively pedestrian compromises on policy to get my support - mostly a clean budget including Ukraine funding, a point which a sizable portion of the GOP actually does agree with the Dems on. I don’t think the Dems have much to lose if they can secure that, and they’d have a tremendous amount to gain in getting to have that much power despite not being the majority party in the house. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-democrats-strategy-behind-not-supporting-mccarthy/991075/130 "2023-10-06T03:55:30Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > The freedom caucus acts as though only they have the ability to leverage the party and you would think (or hope in desperation) tthat someone else in the party at some point would realize this. So far, most who have crossed lines have been crucified for it. That’s the power the Freedumb Caucus has over the rest of the party. Until that stops these jokers will run the show and I honestly cannot see anyone having the spine to try to oppose them. Currently, Trump (read MAGA) is polling way, way, way ahead of any other republican candidate. The message to the party is they have to play nice with MAGA. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-democrats-strategy-behind-not-supporting-mccarthy/991075/131 "2023-10-06T03:59:35Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > The new leader would need a majority vote to change the rule, right? I don’t know what the process is for leaving the rule in place, or for changing it. For that matter, the current rule may only allow a single Republican to bring a motion to vacate. If that’s the case, good luck getting the House to extend that same poison pill rule to any single Democrat. I do kind of like the idea of a single House member jumping up and saying “I want my MTV!” (Is that how Gaetz did it? He doesn’t strike me as that cool.) > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > So far, most who have crossed lines has been crucified for it. There’s a great irony in the Freedom Caucus being pissed at McCarthy for voting with Democrats, so the caucus members voted with the Dems to strip him of the speakership. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-democrats-strategy-behind-not-supporting-mccarthy/991075/132 "2023-10-06T04:24:12Z")
People here are talking about “Republicans in the Problem Solvers Conference” as being the potential adults in the room, but [it appears that the PSC may soon cease to exist,](https://www.axios.com/2023/10/03/problem-solvers-caucus-mccarthy-removal-speaker) because the Republican members are blaming the Democrats rather than themselves for the current mess. 🙄 It seems clear that even the “moderate” Republicans would rather work with MTG and Gaetz than with Jeffries, so, seriously, fuck them. They’re acting like they won the election and have the House majority, when clearly they don’t; there are 212 Democrats, about 212 Republicans, and about 10 Batshit Raving Loonies. The Republicans need to decide who they want to be in a coalition with, and it appears they’ve made their choice. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-democrats-strategy-behind-not-supporting-mccarthy/991075/133 "2023-10-06T04:32:20Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > …Republican members are blaming the Democrats rather than themselves for the current mess. These are not smart people. I really mean that. They are literally stupid. At best, you could say each is supremely self interested and playing a game of musical chairs hoping they will get a seat when the music stops. One thing they clearly have no concern for is governance or the welfare of the country. They are only looking out for #1. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-democrats-strategy-behind-not-supporting-mccarthy/991075/134 "2023-10-06T05:14:37Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I was thinking the same as @susan. The Republicans in the Problem Solvers Caucus get something now, in return for a promise to do things for Democrats later. So it depends on how much you trust them to keep their word, or whether you can include provisions to punish them if they renege. If they renege then the Dems withdraw their support and leave the problem solver speaker and the mercy of Gaetz et al and we are basically back where we are now. Assuming that the problem solvers actually want a functioning government with them in charge, it is in their best interest to follow through. If they don’t follow through then the Dems don’t really lose anything. There are reasons not to make such a deal for both sides From the Dems side: 1. It might look bad to the liberal base to be the agent that put a Republican speaker in power. 2. It it might be better politically to let the world see the complete dysfunction of the Republicans. From the Problem solvers side 1. making a deal with the Dems might destroy their any hope of a future in the Republican party 2. They might think that they can resolve the situation without the Dems help and then negotiate a more favorable budget deal. 3. The might be concerned that once they got the budget deal they wanted the Dems might renege, let Gaetz unseat the speaker and eat popcorn while the opposition destroys themselves. The trust in on their side not ours. We get what we want within the first week of the deal commencing. They have to trust us through the rest of the term. ---
**Author:** ![InternetLegend](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/internetlegend/32/13154_2.png) [@InternetLegend](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InternetLegend)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-democrats-strategy-behind-not-supporting-mccarthy/991075/135 "2023-10-06T06:53:31Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > [https://i.insider.com/634d7ce6410f430018148cf8?width=1000&format=jpeg&auto=webp](https://i.insider.com/634d7ce6410f430018148cf8?width=1000&format=jpeg&auto=webp) This is the first person I’ve **ever** thought looked better in clown makeup. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-democrats-strategy-behind-not-supporting-mccarthy/991075/136 "2023-10-06T12:28:47Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > 1. It might look bad to the liberal base to be the agent that put a Republican speaker in power. I really hope that the democrats basically universally have enough faith in their base that they would take this win if available. > [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > The trust in on their side not ours. We get what we want within the first week of the deal commencing. They have to trust us through the rest of the term. This I do agree with. We again probably won’t even get to that point, but hopefully this wouldn’t make the republicans balk since I don’t think the Dems really have a reason to just betray them on this. But who knows. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-democrats-strategy-behind-not-supporting-mccarthy/991075/137 "2023-10-06T13:42:09Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > At best, you could say each is supremely self interested and playing a game of musical chairs hoping they will get a seat when the music stops. They _think_ they’re playing musical chairs. They’re actually playing hot potato. ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-democrats-strategy-behind-not-supporting-mccarthy/991075/138 "2023-10-06T13:53:19Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Here is the offer I would make to the Republican members of the problem solvers caucus. The Dems provide most of the votes to elect a Speaker and in return they only get a budget bill? And if the new Speaker renegs the Dems have no recourse? ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-democrats-strategy-behind-not-supporting-mccarthy/991075/139 "2023-10-06T14:23:57Z")
When yours negotiating with suicide bombers your options aren’t usually very attractive. ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-democrats-strategy-behind-not-supporting-mccarthy/991075/140 "2023-10-06T14:53:54Z")
But the Speaker would reneg, the Dems would have elected a GOP speaker, not gotten anything for it, the GOP would message it as a victory – that the Dems were outplayed, and the Dems could do nothing about it. They wouldn’t even have the votes to vacate. The country would not be in a better state than today and would not be in a better state than last week. * * * I don’t know much about the Rules or the House and am happy to be educated. It seems like there are too many rules that hinge on the Majority party for a bi-partisan Speaker to work. Maybe if the bi-partisan Speaker’s support was 50/50 with a sizable overall majority, but certainly not if it is mostly provided by the opposition party. The Minority party won’t get Chair assignments, can’t pass a vacate, can’t pass their bills, etc. It’s a non-starter, like “Why aren’t you winning the game? The other team only has 8 more players.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-democrats-strategy-behind-not-supporting-mccarthy/991075.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-democrats-strategy-behind-not-supporting-mccarthy/991075.md?page=8)