Maybe we should go with “Crazy Clown Car Party,” so the initials give everyone a clear picture of where their loyalties lie.
I get what you’re saying. And I agree that the Democrats were right to vote against McCarthy. But when the outcome is inevitably going to be a Republican demagogue you know versus a Republican demagogue you don’t know, can you really blame people just for stepping back and wanting to game it out?
MAGA isn’t the Dems problem to solve. It’s the Republicans. And as long as the Dems work to solve the problem, the Republicans won’t have to.
If your dad keeps bailing you out of financial jams, why stop putting yourself in financial jams?
I am still salty that “Insane Clown Posse” is already taken.
Good thing, too. Juggalos are, from what I’ve read, better people than MAGAs. I’d hate to see them get conflated.
Yes, this. I heard it stated something like, Republicans being insane and dysfunctional is the baseline for the media, and Dems being the adults in the room is expected. So, if a Republican does something not totally insane (say, Mike Pence deciding not to try and overturn our democracy), he’s lauded as a hero of some sort. When Dems don’t bail the Republicans out of their insane, dysfunctional messes, it’s the Dems fault.
Insane Congressional Posse with their MAGAlos.
Republicans are the party that fucks things up, and Democrats are the party that fix it. Everybody knows this and accepts it. Thus, when things are as fucked up as they are now, it is the Democrats’ fault for failing to fix it.
IMHO this is the best answer in the thread. Thank you for that!
Thanks from Snowthx… the circle is complete.
I’m finding it funny that Republicans are now talking about Democrats the way Democrats have been talking about Greens for decades…“You are being evil and foolish by failing to vote for our candidate, who opposes everything you stand for and openly despises you, because the alternative might be even worse.” Absolutely no clue that their own refusal to offer the other party anything they might actually want is a contributing factor to the situation.
(Not trying to start a hijack here. I do believe that voting Green is actually evil and foolish, I just think it’s funny that parties think that they’re owed the votes of certain people and shouldn’t have to make any effort to actually appeal to those people)
I see that idea expressed a lot but have never really seen an actual example of it.
That is, I haven’t actually seen any Democrats say they are ‘owed’ the votes of people who are actual Greens (or whatever third party) vs people who are otherwise Democrats casting protest votes for whatever reason. I personally know Florida Nader voters who now regret their decision in 2000 because they didn’t actually want the result they got - they just thought they could support a third party while their actual preferred candidate would still win.
So, if there are Congresscritters who are actually Republicans but who have, for bizarre reasons, decided to run as and caucus with the Democrats as a form of protest, then I guess I have egg on my face.
There are many answers to the OP’s question – giving something (i.e. saving McCarthy) with nothing in return sets a terrible precedent for future negotiations; this opens a tiny but non-zero possibility of the Democrats gaining power and influence in the House; McCarthy has been dishonest and dishonorable and saving him sets a terrible precedent for future Speaker behavior (including McCarthy himself had he remained); the Republicans should clean up their own problems, or if they want Democratic help, then negotiate with Democrats and offer something in return; but here’s another one: there’s going to be chaos and shittiness going forward no matter what… if the Democrats saved McCarthy, they’d own a piece of that. By not saving McCarthy, it’s all on the Republicans.
… which is why they’re so frothing about this.
Good summation.
That’s essentially the definition of “opposition” party.
If they are choosing sides between factions of Republicans without getting anything out of it, they aren’t an opposition party. They’re simply another faction of Republicans themselves. It’s bizarre that anybody expects any differently.
My question really is…what is the advantage to the democrats for not supporting McCarthy.
What are they thinking will result in a better outcome for themselves.
I don’t think the Democrats are of the sort to say “screw McCarthy because he’s a Republican” I think they are more savvy and thinking "Removing McCarthy is to our advantage because…X.
What is “X”?
X = it can get worse for them, but not much worse for us
Why, oh why, did we not live stream a cabbage!
The next Republican Speaker who finds themselves stuck trying to get shit done while the MAGAts oppose anything sensible will know that they can’t count on the Democrats bailing them out. They will have to actually offer the Democrats something, or accept failure.
This is particularly useful now, since it’s a pretty safe bet the next Speaker will be stuck in this exact quagmire when the recent CR expires in November.