# What is the difference between Brian and Bryan? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 14, 2012, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-brian-and-bryan/634650 "2012-09-14T01:04:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![arseNal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@arseNal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/arseNal)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2012, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-brian-and-bryan/634650/21 "2012-09-14T18:27:06Z")
There’s always the alternative spelling to Brian, BRIVOLBN7Q. [Relevant Brian Regan clip](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p39IqZOXcdk) ---
**Author:** ![Ashley\_Pomeroy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c68b51/32.png) [@Ashley\_Pomeroy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashley_Pomeroy)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2012, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-brian-and-bryan/634650/22 "2012-09-14T20:48:38Z")
Well, basically, Brian was the keyboardist, and Bryan was the singer - but although Bryan _should_ have provided the bulk of the band’s stage presence, he continually found himself being overshadowed by Brian, who dressed in flamboyant clothes and looked like a [space ostrich](http://artintopop.blogspot.co.uk/2012/01/more-eno-diaries-roxy-musics-for-your.html). Ultimately Brian decided to move on to broader and more diffuse horizons, and Bryan got to keep the band. Opinions differ as to whether Brian was pushed or not. The problem was… well, it was the same as the early Human League. Brian and Bryan had a bold artistic vision that was _almost_ but not quite compatible; it’s not as if they were radically at variance with each other, they just couldn’t find common ground. They both went on to be very successful in their chosen fields, although Brian is nowadays far trendier than Bryan. There’s a sense that Bryan allowed himself to be seduced by the thing he mocked, whereas Brian was less easily swayed by decadence. As for why they spelled their names differently, that’s easy. They didn’t want people to mix them up. ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2012, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-brian-and-bryan/634650/23 "2012-09-14T21:27:53Z")
Don’t know about the difference between Brian and Bryan, but I do know that the difference between them and Brien is that Brien used to work where I do… ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2012, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-brian-and-bryan/634650/24 "2012-09-14T22:45:52Z")
Odd spelling I’m aware of: Sckilay’re (skyler) Brian is obviously the superior spelling, with Bryan is a pale imitation Brian ---
**Author:** ![CheeseDonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@CheeseDonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CheeseDonkey)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-brian-and-bryan/634650/25 "2012-09-15T03:36:52Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I’m not sure what kind of answer you’re expecting here. The same sort of well-informed, non-snarky answers I got here: > **[What is the difference between Steven and Stephen?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=659740)** > > That is, why are there two spellings of that name? And how many words have a “ph” that makes a “v” sound? ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-brian-and-bryan/634650/26 "2012-09-15T03:46:02Z")
> [@CheeseDonkey](#): > > The same sort of well-informed, non-snarky answers I got here: > > [What is the difference between Steven and Stephen? - Factual Questions - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=659740) [snark] No. You got what you deserve in this thread. You got more than you deserved in the other. [/snark] ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-brian-and-bryan/634650/27 "2012-09-15T04:13:27Z")
> [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > Creative spelling of names is at an all time high. > > Alicia too traditional for you?, how about Alesha. Or maybe Aleceea, Alecia, Alica, Alicea, Alisa, Alisha, Alissa, Alecia, Allyceea, Allycia, Allysia, Alysia, Elissa, Ellissa. > > Quinton, Quentin. Quantin, Quent, Quentan, Quenten, Quenton, Quentyn, Quint, Quintin, Quintus, Qwentin. Quentin’s > > Or my all time favorite, Qyntyon. > > Yes, I work with young people. And they are all special, and need their own special spelling to set them apart. There is a whole chapter in Freakonomics about black-sounding names and spelling variants. The upshot is, the more bizarre and non-traditional the name or spelling, the more likely the owner is to fail at life. Why? Good question. Perhaps the less educated parents (hence, less educated offspring) are more likely to indulge in “Prinssesse” spelling? People make instant assumptions about owners of such names? Regardless, I am more likely to see Bryan as pretentious snob higher-class rather than indulgent uneducated lower-class. It’s too plain and common for the latter. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-brian-and-bryan/634650/28 "2012-09-15T04:45:58Z")
they are both boys names and one is better endowed. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-brian-and-bryan/634650/29 "2012-09-15T05:10:45Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > There is a whole chapter in Freakonomics about black-sounding names and spelling variants. Why are these “black-sounding” ? They abound in my white family among the poor / uneducated and recent-immigrant sectors. The Celtic etymologiesgiven for Brian are sound, though I’m not sure what they mean by “Old Celtic”—not, to my knowledge, a thing. Perhaps they mean proto-Celtic but that’s really reaching in this case. I’ll add another possibility for the Irish one: a diminutive of _breo_ / _bri_, which means “flame,” thus a name for a redheaded kid. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-brian-and-bryan/634650/30 "2012-09-15T14:57:12Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Why are these “black-sounding” ? They abound in my white family among the poor / uneducated and recent-immigrant sectors. Hey, I didn’t write the book. I just read it and recommend it. (I thought I made clear that Brian/Bryan were not in that category) > **[Where baby names come from.](https://slate.com/business/2005/04/where-baby-names-come-from.html)** > > Which is more dangerous: a gun or a swimming pool? How much does campaign spending really matter? What truly made crime fall in the 1990s? These are... > **[A Roshanda by any other name.](https://slate.com/business/2005/04/a-roshanda-by-any-other-name.html)** > > Which is more dangerous: a gun or a swimming pool? How much does campaign spending really matter? What truly made crime fall in the 1990s? These are... > [@](#): > > The California data establish just how dissimilarly black and white parents have named their children over the past 25 years or so—a remnant, it seems, of the Black Power movement. The typical baby girl born in a black neighborhood in 1970 was given a name that was twice as common among blacks than whites. By 1980, she received a name that was 20 times more common among blacks. (Boys’ names moved in the same direction but less aggressively—likely because parents of all races are less adventurous with boys’ names than girls’.) Today, more than 40 percent of the black girls born in California in a given year receive a name that not one of the roughly 100,000 baby white girls received that year. Even more remarkably, nearly 30 percent of the black girls are given a name that is unique among every baby, white and black, born that year in California. (There were also 228 babies named Unique during the 1990s alone, and one each of Uneek, Uneque, and Uneqqee; virtually all of them were black.) > [@](#): > > The data show that, on average, a person with a distinctively black name—whether it is a woman named Imani or a man named DeShawn—does have a worse life outcome than a woman named Molly or a man named Jake. But it isn’t the fault of his or her name. If two black boys, Jake Williams and DeShawn Williams, are born in the same neighborhood and into the same familial and economic circumstances, they would likely have similar life outcomes. But the kind of parents who name their son Jake don’t tend to live in the same neighborhoods or share economic circumstances with the kind of parents who name their son DeShawn. And that’s why, on average, a boy named Jake will tend to earn more money and get more education than a boy named DeShawn. DeShawn’s name is an indicator—but not a cause—of his life path. [http://ideas.repec.org/a/tpr/qjecon/v119y2004i3p767-805.html](http://ideas.repec.org/a/tpr/qjecon/v119y2004i3p767-805.html) (requires paid subscription for full text) ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-brian-and-bryan/634650/31 "2012-09-15T18:22:26Z")
> [@N9IWP](#): > > … > > Brian is obviously the superior spelling, with Bryan is a pale imitation > > Brian I agree. Brian and “Y” is only _sometimes_ a vowell. ---
**Author:** ![Saltire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saltire/32/553_2.png) [@Saltire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saltire)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-brian-and-bryan/634650/32 "2012-09-15T18:42:37Z")
I have a cousin named Bryon. ---
**Author:** ![Swords\_to\_Plowshares](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b38774/32.png) [@Swords\_to\_Plowshares](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swords_to_Plowshares)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-brian-and-bryan/634650/33 "2012-09-15T20:18:21Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Speaking of Shakespeare… guess which spelling the man _never once_ used in _any_ of the signatures we can attribute to him. Bill? ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-brian-and-bryan/634650/34 "2012-09-15T20:56:01Z")
> [@Swords\_to\_Plowshares](#): > > Bill? “Bryan”. Try to keep up. ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2012, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-brian-and-bryan/634650/35 "2012-09-16T12:21:53Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > The Celtic etymologiesgiven for Brian are sound, though I’m not sure what they mean by “Old Celtic”—not, to my knowledge, a thing. Perhaps they mean proto-Celtic but that’s really reaching in this case. Here’s what I think they mean. There is a Celtic toponymic element Briga meaning “hill”. There is a related adjective Brigant meaning “high” or “noble”. This gives us various European placenames such as Bregenz, Braganca, Burgundy… If their explanation is correct, their claim is that Brian is derived from Brigant, which seems quite plausible to me. The word _bre_ that they are calling “Old Celtic” is presumably the modern Gaelic word “brí” or “bré” meaning a steep slope, which of course derives from that older word Briga (and appears in English as “brae”). As the source is probably a “Big Book of Name Origins”, I doubt whether the writers were particularly aware of or interested in the difference between “Old Celtic” and modern Irish. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2012, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-brian-and-bryan/634650/36 "2012-09-16T15:20:46Z")
> [@hibernicus](#): > > Here’s what I think they mean. There is a Celtic toponymic element Briga meaning “hill”. There is a related adjective Brigant meaning “high” or “noble”. This gives us various European placenames such as Bregenz, Braganca, Burgundy… > > If their explanation is correct, their claim is that Brian is derived from Brigant, which seems quite plausible to me. > > The word _bre_ that they are calling “Old Celtic” is presumably the modern Gaelic word “brí” or “bré” meaning a steep slope, which of course derives from that older word Briga (and appears in English as “brae”). > > As the source is probably a “Big Book of Name Origins”, I doubt whether the writers were particularly aware of or interested in the difference between “Old Celtic” and modern Irish. My objection is that there is no language called “Old Celtic” by Celticists. Irish _Brian_ cannot come directly from _brigant-_. Irish would not have lost the -g-, and it would have simplified -nt to -t (Old Irish), later written as -d. (Thus _Brigit_ \> _Brighid_ / _Bríd_, which does come from that etymon). The Brythonic languages, however, did lose intervocalic G, and if this is the root it has to have come into Irish from Old Welsh. The English “Brian” probably is, at least the first element. Like “Alan” and “Joel” and a couple of others, it’s one of the name brought over by the Breton nobles who participated in the Norman invasion of 1066. Modern Brian mostly comes from Irish, which is mostly likely a different word altogether. I’ve provided an alternative etymology above, an exact parallel to Aedan and a semantic parallel to Kenneth (in other words, plausible as a name in Irish). Experts disagree, though, so there isn’t a GQ answer as to where Irish Brian comes from. ---
**Author:** ![JacobSwan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@JacobSwan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JacobSwan)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2012, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-brian-and-bryan/634650/37 "2012-09-16T18:43:31Z")
> [@johnpost](#): > > they are both boys names and one is better endowed. At the risk of outing myself on here, my real first name is Bryann. Yes, with 2 n’s. I’m nearly 41 and I still get annoyed when people use only one. If they call me Brian I honestly don’t realise they are referring to me. It’s a totally alien spelling to me. And if you’re ever at a book signing with Brian Blessed, don’t ever tell him that his name is spelt the common way. My shoulder still hurts 20 years later. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2012, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-brian-and-bryan/634650/38 "2012-09-17T00:35:05Z")
> [@JacobSwan](#): > > … > > If they call me Brian I honestly don’t realise they are referring to me. It’s a totally alien spelling to me. > > … How is your name pronounced? Or are you only referring to the written word? Brrian sorry, couldn’t resist. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2012, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-brian-and-bryan/634650/39 "2012-09-17T01:29:57Z")
> [@CheeseDonkey](#): > > The same sort of well-informed, non-snarky answers I got here: > > [What is the difference between Steven and Stephen? - Factual Questions - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=659740) So are you planning to start a new thread for every name with spelling variants you encounter? Let me save you one. Shannon means “small and wise” while Shannen means “can’t get along with female castmembers.” ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2012, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-brian-and-bryan/634650/40 "2012-09-17T08:46:01Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > My objection is that there is no language called “Old Celtic” by Celticists. Agreed. > [@](#): > > Irish _Brian_ cannot come directly from _brigant-_. Irish would not have lost the -g-, and it would have simplified -nt to -t (Old Irish), later written as -d. (Thus _Brigit_ \> _Brighid_ / _Bríd_, which does come from that etymon). I’ve provided an alternative etymology above, an exact parallel to Aedan and a semantic parallel to Kenneth (in other words, plausible as a name in Irish). Experts disagree, though, so there isn’t a GQ answer as to where Irish Brian comes from. I’ll definitely defer to your expertise in this area, but you have confused me a little by saying that an intervocalic “g” wouldn’t get dropped in Irish. As far as I can see, intervocalic “g” almost _always_ gets dropped in Irish, as in your own example “Bríd”. Did you mean that it would not have lost the “g” 1000 years ago in time for Brian Boru? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-brian-and-bryan/634650.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-brian-and-bryan/634650.md?page=3)