# What is the difference between crows and ravens? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 21, 2003, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-crows-and-ravens/176666 "2003-05-21T22:49:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Tarantula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e274bd/32.png) [@Tarantula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarantula)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-crows-and-ravens/176666/21 "2003-05-22T12:29:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mangetout \* > \*\*Again though, blackbirds are very small compared to crows and other common corvids. > > AFAIK the only place crows have yellow beaks is when they appear in cartoons or as stuffed toys. \*\* I agree with you **Mangetout**. I was just trying to come up with some dark-coloured bird with a yellow beak that maight have been sitting on a wire… :eek: ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-crows-and-ravens/176666/22 "2003-05-22T12:32:13Z")
It’s hard to believe that anyone would confuse starlings with crows due to the great size difference. The blackbirds they have in the USA are not the same as the ones in Ireland. The Irish ones are _Turdus merula_ and it’s the [male that has the yellow beak](http://www.arthurgrosset.com/europebirds/photos/turmer1805.jpg), not the female (females have variously coloured beaks, some paler than others but not bright yellow). American blackbirds include several species, especially the red-winged blackbird (_Agelaius phoeniceus_), which doesn’t have a yellow beak. [Rooks](http://staff.bath.ac.uk/pyscpb/images/feb202/rook%202%20(corvus%20frugilegus)%20Chew.jpg) (_Corvus frugilegus_) have partly pale-coloured beaks, but they don’t occur in the USA. My guess is that **sugaree’s** friend is just mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![Tarantula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e274bd/32.png) [@Tarantula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarantula)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-crows-and-ravens/176666/23 "2003-05-22T13:00:31Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by everton \***The Irish ones are _Turdus merula_ and it’s the [male that has the yellow beak](http://www.arthurgrosset.com/europebirds/photos/turmer1805.jpg), not the female (females have variously coloured beaks, some paler than others but not bright yellow).** I stand corrected… :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-crows-and-ravens/176666/24 "2003-05-22T15:58:21Z")
This question was answered in today’s [Farley](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2003/05/22/MNFARLEY.DTL) comic strip. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-crows-and-ravens/176666/25 "2003-05-22T18:33:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by brachyrhynchos \* > They are found away from human habitat while crows are attracted to how we live. Usually. But I have seen Ravens nesting in San Francisco, including a pair right in the middle of the busiest part of the SFSU campus ( though admittedly at the top of a pretty massive tree ). - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-crows-and-ravens/176666/26 "2003-05-22T19:11:38Z")
There wild ravens in central Liverpool too. They nest at the top of the tower in the [Anglican Catherdral](http://www.visitliverpool.com/liverpool-short-breaks/liverpool-special-offers-images/liverpool-cathedral.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![Zazie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Zazie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zazie)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-crows-and-ravens/176666/27 "2003-05-22T21:29:52Z")
Damn I thought I was going to impress you all with the beak color story… I guess I’ve always been wrong! To me a Raven had a black beak, and a crow a yellow… Sigh… ---
**Author:** ![sugaree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@sugaree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugaree)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-crows-and-ravens/176666/28 "2003-05-23T01:07:21Z")
We’re not in Ireland, so it couldn’t be an Irish blackbird. I’m curious now. I think I must accost him with some field guide to North American birds at some point in time. ---
**Author:** ![Sassy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@Sassy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sassy)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-crows-and-ravens/176666/29 "2003-05-23T02:25:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tamerlane \* > \*\*Usually. But I have seen Ravens nesting in San Francisco, including a pair right in the middle of the busiest part of the SFSU campus ( though admittedly at the top of a pretty massive tree ). > > - Tamerlane \*\* I saw a gathering of what I thought were crows down at San Francisco’s Ocean Beach. There were at least 20! Quite a shock to see. They were close to a foot tall - ravens? ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-crows-and-ravens/176666/30 "2003-05-23T04:21:01Z")
Side question: a group of Crows is called a “murder” of crows, right? What is a group of ravens called? ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-crows-and-ravens/176666/31 "2003-05-23T04:28:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cuckoorex \* > \*\*Side question: a group of Crows is called a “murder” of crows, right? What is a group of ravens called? \*\* An “unkindness.” I think it was just this morning that I mentioned how silly these collective names are in the “useless words” thread. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-crows-and-ravens/176666/32 "2003-05-23T04:42:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sassy \* > I saw a gathering of what I thought were crows down at San Francisco’s Ocean Beach. There were at least 20! Quite a shock to see. They were close to a foot tall - ravens? Probably crows. Crows are more likely to congregate in flocks like that and we grow crows pretty big out on the west coast. The ravens I’ve seen in the city are more usually in park-like atmospheres, like GG Park and generally not in those sort of numbers. I have seen small flocks of ravens on the coast, but probably not 20 - they’re more usually in pairs with the ( smallish ) flocks consisting of non-breeding and sub-adult animals. Crows, in contrast, are more usually cooperative breeders ( though they also form floater-flocks ). Ravens average about 2’ long, which is probably a bit more than a foot tall :). An adult is pretty massive. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-crows-and-ravens/176666/33 "2003-05-23T04:49:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sassy \*I saw a gathering of what I thought were crows down at San Francisco’s Ocean Beach. There were at least 20! Quite a shock to see. They were close to a foot tall - ravens? You haven’t seen the size of the crows on the Peninsula. It seems to me that they only started moving into residential neighborhoods in Cupertino, Santa Clara, etc. a few years ago, but they’re all over now, and these crows are huge. MUCH larger than the ones that annoyed the farmers I grew up around back in rural PA. But I’m pretty certain they’re crows, not ravens - they go “caw caw caw”, and have fan shaped tails. The references say crows can go to 21 in, which is a good-sized bird - I swear I’ve seen some 2-footers around here. ---
**Author:** ![Ender\_Will](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Ender\_Will](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ender_Will)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-crows-and-ravens/176666/34 "2003-05-23T05:57:36Z")
Crows host shows making fun of bad movies, and all a raven ever says is “Nevermore” ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-crows-and-ravens/176666/35 "2003-05-23T21:06:27Z")
A few individual ravens can usually be found somewhere near my Mom’s place on the NorCal coast, about 5 hours north of San Francisco. They can be massive birds, especially when they’re eating lots of quality compost and horse feed. There’s nothing quite like taking a stroll through the woods and hearing the **WHOOSH WHOOSH** of their massive wings as they fly past. They are certainly the largest bird I’ve come in intimate contact with in any sort of natural setting. [tangent/] I’m saving my pennies for my next tattoo, which will be a tribalized raven back piece that I drew a few years back. I think these animals have incredible mojo. While historically considered omens, agents of the Underworld, or filthy pests…to me they symbolize the beauty of life growing from death, and all of that Circle of Life stuff…[/tangent] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-crows-and-ravens/176666.md?page=1)