# What is the difference between "Honte à toi" and Honte sur toi"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 9, 2021, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-honte-a-toi-and-honte-sur-toi/946072 "2021-07-09T07:57:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Octagon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/2acd7d/32.png) [@Octagon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octagon)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2021, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-honte-a-toi-and-honte-sur-toi/946072/1 "2021-07-09T07:57:39Z")
What is the difference between “Honte à toi” and “Honte sur toi”. They translate the same: “Shame on you!” I couldn’t find any explanation. Are they synonymous or is there a difference? ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2021, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-honte-a-toi-and-honte-sur-toi/946072/2 "2021-07-09T08:08:15Z")
According to the dictionary, they mean the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![UDS1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e47774/32.png) [@UDS1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS1)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2021, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-honte-a-toi-and-honte-sur-toi/946072/3 "2021-07-09T08:23:57Z")
Yup. I think it’s just a matter of style - similar to the English phrases “bring shame on oneself” and “bring shame upon oneself”. It’s hard to think of a context in which you could use one construction but not the other. ---
**Author:** ![Octagon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/2acd7d/32.png) [@Octagon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octagon)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2021, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-honte-a-toi-and-honte-sur-toi/946072/4 "2021-07-09T10:10:09Z")
Thanks, so ‘à’ and ‘sur’ can be used interchangeably. If anyone can point out a rule that states this option I would really appreciate it. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2021, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-honte-a-toi-and-honte-sur-toi/946072/5 "2021-07-09T11:01:19Z")
I have not seen any formal rule, not that I searched through every conceivable reference grammar, but you can easily look up attributed quotations, see for example [https://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/honte](https://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/honte) as well as search through corpora yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Octagon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/2acd7d/32.png) [@Octagon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octagon)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2021, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-honte-a-toi-and-honte-sur-toi/946072/6 "2021-07-09T11:50:25Z")
Thanks DPRK. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2021, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-honte-a-toi-and-honte-sur-toi/946072/7 "2021-07-09T13:12:41Z")
Since I don’t speak French, how are they pronounced? Is the first one ‘Honta twah’? ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2021, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-honte-a-toi-and-honte-sur-toi/946072/8 "2021-07-09T13:47:22Z")
Close, except that the ‘H’ is silent. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2021, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-honte-a-toi-and-honte-sur-toi/946072/9 "2021-07-09T14:55:37Z")
‘Onta twah’. Mercie. ---
**Author:** ![RayMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e495f1/32.png) [@RayMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RayMan)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2021, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-honte-a-toi-and-honte-sur-toi/946072/10 "2021-07-09T15:46:05Z")
_Merci_ is spelled without an “e” at the end. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2021, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-honte-a-toi-and-honte-sur-toi/946072/11 "2021-07-09T15:53:13Z")
Mercy bucket to you too, RayMan! ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2021, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-honte-a-toi-and-honte-sur-toi/946072/12 "2021-07-09T16:21:45Z")
I don’t speak French. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![UDS1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e47774/32.png) [@UDS1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS1)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2021, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-honte-a-toi-and-honte-sur-toi/946072/13 "2021-07-12T01:27:30Z")
> [@Octagon](#): > > Thanks, so ‘à’ and ‘sur’ can be used interchangeably. If anyone can point out a rule that states this option I would really appreciate it. They can be used interchangeably _in this context_, but obviously there are many other contexts in which this is not so. I suspect the choice of preposition may depend on which verb is being used. Google offers numerous examples of variations on both “apporter honte à” and “apporter honte sur” (both meaning “to bring shame on/upon”), so presumably both are acceptable. But “faire honte à” (to disgrace) seems to be used while “faire honte sur” is not, and presumably a French speaker would understand “faire honte sur”, but would regard it as not idiomatic. ---
**Author:** ![Octagon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/2acd7d/32.png) [@Octagon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octagon)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2021, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-honte-a-toi-and-honte-sur-toi/946072/14 "2021-07-12T21:42:32Z")
Thank you USD1. That clarifies things much more now.