# What is the difference between rape and incest? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 22, 2012, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-rape-and-incest/632241 "2012-08-22T02:19:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-rape-and-incest/632241/1 "2012-08-22T02:19:32Z")
In all this controversy surrounding Rep. Todd Akin’s “forcible rape” comments, a certain question has arisen in my mind regarding definitions. It seems to be a belief among many in the Republican party that even pregnancies resulting from “rape _or_ incest” cannot legally be aborted. My question is, what’s the difference here? How is incestual sex _not_ rape? I mean, if statutory rape is rape, then incest is rape. Differentiating between the two seems to do a disservice to the victims, IMO. However, I may be lacking some bit of knowledge that legitimizes (no pun) this distinction. So, what is the difference, if any, between rape and incest? ---
**Author:** ![zombywoof](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/9e8a1a/32.png) [@zombywoof](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zombywoof)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-rape-and-incest/632241/2 "2012-08-22T02:20:46Z")
While maybe all incest is rape, not all rape is incest, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-rape-and-incest/632241/3 "2012-08-22T02:21:45Z")
Seriously? Two related people of legal age have consensual sex. Incest, but not rape. Two related people have sex, it is not consensual. Incest and rape. Two related people have sex, one of whom is underage. Incest and rape. Not sure what’s hard to understand about that… ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-rape-and-incest/632241/4 "2012-08-22T02:24:58Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > Seriously? > > Two related people of legal age have consensual sex. Incest, not rape. If it’s consensual sex, then why do they care if one gets pregnant? Oh, the ick factor! Yeah. Also, two adults can have sex and one can still be charged with incest. See [here](http://www.columbiaspectator.com/2010/12/10/professor-david-epstein-charged-incest-his-daughter). He was charged but his daughter wasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-rape-and-incest/632241/5 "2012-08-22T02:27:18Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > Seriously? > Two related people of legal age have consensual sex. Incest, but not rape. > > Two related people have sex, it is not consensual. Incest and rape. > > Two related people have sex, one of whom is underage. Incest and rape. > Not sure what’s hard to understand about that… I guess I didn’t know all that was needed to qualify as “incest” was for the participants to be related. It’s why I put this in GQ; to be educated. How close does this relation need to be in order to qualify as being an incestual one? ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-rape-and-incest/632241/6 "2012-08-22T02:33:03Z")
Rape is rape and incest is incest. Sometimes the two overlap, sometimes they don’t. There’s simply no way, legal or otherwise, that you can conflate the two. How could consensual sex between brother and sister, for example, both of legal age, be construed as rape? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-rape-and-incest/632241/7 "2012-08-22T02:33:52Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > I guess I didn’t know all that was needed to qualify as “incest” was for the participants to be related. It’s why I put this in GQ; to be educated. How close does this relation need to be in order to qualify as being an incestual one? Depends on the country. Or state. 1st cousin marriage is legal in some states but not others. [In the United States](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cousin_marriage_map1.svg). As to why pregnancy is a taboo, well that’s pretty obvious. [Too much of it](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Carlos_segundo80.png) leads to [problems.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_II_of_Spain) The gene pool needs to be deeper than a paddling pool to ensure healthy progeny. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-rape-and-incest/632241/8 "2012-08-22T02:35:42Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > How close does this relation need to be in order to qualify as being an incestual one? That depends on the jurisdiction. I think parent and child, and brother and sister, would be incest everywhere; first cousins are incestuous in some places, and legal in others. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-rape-and-incest/632241/9 "2012-08-22T02:37:10Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > Depends on the country. Or state. 1st cousin marriage is legal in some states but not others. [In the United States](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cousin_marriage_map1.svg). > > As to why pregnancy is a taboo, well that’s pretty obvious. [Too much of it](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Carlos_segundo80.png) leads to [problems.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_II_of_Spain) The gene pool needs to be deeper than a paddling pool to ensure healthy progeny. Yes, I admit to some brain farts when posting this OP. Of course I understand the difference between a fully grown brother and sister having consentual sex and that sister being raped. I guess my question should have been what you were answering here: what defines “incest”. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-rape-and-incest/632241/10 "2012-08-22T02:44:56Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Yes, I admit to some brain farts when posting this OP. Of course I understand the difference between a fully grown brother and sister having consentual sex and that sister being raped. I guess my question should have been what you were answering here: what defines “incest”. In [law](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_regarding_incest), over in England it’s specifically defined as “sexual intercourse between a person and their parent, grandparent, child, grandchild, brother, sister, half-brother, half-sister, uncle, aunt, nephew or niece.” Those categories seem to be more-or-less shared across most cultures; the 1st cousin is the gray area. Legal to get married to your 1st cousin here, in Texas it’s incest. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-rape-and-incest/632241/11 "2012-08-22T02:57:49Z")
Rape is forcible sex. One partner is forced into sex. Non-consensual. Statutory rape recognizes that underage persons are unable to give consent, so any sex is non-consensual. Incest is sex between relatives that is illegal. It varies by legal jurisdiction, but can be consensual. A lot of people infer that incest is a father or step-father forcing himself on an underaged girl. That can be both incest and rape. But incest needn’t be rape if it is between consenting adults who otherwise are not permitted by law to have sex. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-rape-and-incest/632241/12 "2012-08-22T03:07:56Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > A lot of people infer that incest is a father or step-father forcing himself on an underaged girl. _Meekly raises hand. Guilty myself. Wasn’t really thinking when composing the OP._ ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-rape-and-incest/632241/13 "2012-08-22T03:12:35Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > _Meekly raises hand. Guilty myself. Wasn’t really thinking when composing the OP._ To be fair, I would suspect that the vast majority of cases are father/step-father\* forces himself on underage daughter/step-daughter. I don’t think anyone really cares (beyond “ick”) if a 30 year old guy and his 32 year old sister have consensual sex. \*or uncle or brother or cousin… ---
**Author:** ![Pai325](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Pai325](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pai325)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-rape-and-incest/632241/14 "2012-08-22T03:24:44Z")
> [@Farmer\_Jane](#): > > If it’s consensual sex, then why do they care if one gets pregnant? Two people don’t have to be related to be upset about consensual sex resulting in a pregnancy. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-rape-and-incest/632241/15 "2012-08-22T03:35:37Z")
Incest is not illegal in every state. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-rape-and-incest/632241/16 "2012-08-22T04:06:01Z")
Many sources refer to “victims” “rape or incest”. How could one be a “victim” of incest but not be a victim of rape? ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-rape-and-incest/632241/17 "2012-08-22T04:21:45Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Many sources refer to “victims” “rape or incest”. How could one be a “victim” of incest but not be a victim of rape? In that case you can’t, really. It’s a phrasing to make the obvious need for an abortion palatable to ardent anti-choice folks. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-rape-and-incest/632241/18 "2012-08-22T04:32:25Z")
> [@Farmer\_Jane](#): > > If it’s consensual sex, then why do they care if one gets pregnant? > > Oh, the ick factor! Yeah. > > Also, two adults can have sex and one can still be charged with incest. See [here](http://www.columbiaspectator.com/2010/12/10/professor-david-epstein-charged-incest-his-daughter). He was charged but his daughter wasn’t. Pled to misdemeanor incest. One year [conditional discharge](http://spectrum.columbiaspectator.com/tag/david-epstein). Glad it wasn’t urethritis and penis discharge. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-rape-and-incest/632241/19 "2012-08-22T04:35:42Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Incest is not illegal in every state. Only RI. You’d think West Virginia would be more lenient… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2012, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-rape-and-incest/632241/20 "2012-08-22T05:02:05Z")
Presumably, too, if both are under the age of consent it may not be statutory rape. (I.e. siblings) Or, if they fall in the 16-18yo exception. Incest, too, can be a crime with consent; many places the law makes an exception that it’s statutory rape even if the person consented (IIRC, say she is between 16 and 18) if the person is a parent, step-parent, teacher, or similar person in authority over the victim - the asumption being there is some element of coercion. If the person is not someone in authority, but still related, that’s just incest. Just because she consented (assuming she did) and just because he was not in authority over her, does not mean she wanted to get pregnant or keep the child. IMHO - The logic is unassailable however you may think it is wrong - if abortion is supposed to be “killing a human life”, it is not allowed. A child of rape or incest is still an innocent child. To my mind, the “rape and incest exception” anti-abortion types are the worst hypocrites. Either you can abort a fetus for whatever reason you like, or you cannot abort for purely personal reasons no matter how reprehensible the conception. (Me, I think it’s totally up to the mother) So the guy may have been stupid (??) for somehow thinking that conception is a conscious choice - but at least his moral point of view was honest and consistent. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-rape-and-incest/632241.md?page=2)