# What is the difference between traditional Republicans and Tea Partiers? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 12, 2010, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-traditional-republicans-and-tea-partiers/535884 "2010-04-12T21:18:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-traditional-republicans-and-tea-partiers/535884/41 "2010-04-15T00:57:58Z")
I think the Tea Party movement will collapse next December. The Republicans are going to find it’s a lot easier to get these people to march and yell than it is to get them to register and vote. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-traditional-republicans-and-tea-partiers/535884/42 "2010-04-15T01:34:17Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > If Obama had tackled immigration reform before health care Tea Partiers would be anti immigration. If he had gone for gay rights first Tea Partiers would call themselves protectors of marriage. They are angry stupid old white people pissed about not being in charge, that and nothing else. Well, that, and the President’s race. > [@John Mace](#): > > I’ll be very surprised if we’ll be hearing much about the Tea Partiers 2 years from now. They’re just too fragmented, and with the major “leaders” seeming to be Palin and Bachman… well, that leadership will lead them into oblivion. > [@Little Nemo](#): > > I think the Tea Party movement will collapse next December. The Republicans are going to find it’s a lot easier to get these people to march and yell than it is to get them to register and vote. Nah, I think they’ll be around for a long, long time. Never underestimate the staying power of willful ignorance. If Obama loses the 2012 election, the TPers will take that proof that their tactics worked and be ever more emboldened. If Obama wins in 2012, the depth and breadth of outrage TPers exhibit will know no bounds and will rally more to the cause. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-traditional-republicans-and-tea-partiers/535884/43 "2010-04-15T01:47:52Z")
The “movement” may officially collapse, but it’s so incoherent it doesn’t really matter. The crazy fringe will still be there; they’ll just change the name of the “movement”. It’s not like there’s a real organization that can go bankrupt or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-traditional-republicans-and-tea-partiers/535884/44 "2010-04-15T02:08:17Z")
What the Tea Party movement most reminds me of, is Ross Perot’s presidential bid in 1992 and the United We Stand movement of his supporters. While some to the issues are different it seems to me to attract the same group of people. The more publicity that the Tea Party gets, the more I feel like I’ve seen this song and dance before. Anyone else get the feeling that the Tea Party is a newer version of United We Stand? ---
**Author:** ![erez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@erez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erez)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-traditional-republicans-and-tea-partiers/535884/45 "2010-04-15T02:37:33Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > They are the most ignorant, the most thuggish, the **worst educated** , the most racist that the Right has to offer. > [@Lobohan](#): > > That said, I think the tea-partiers are the **uneducated** , unthinking and easily rabble-roused part of the GOP. All the sane folks on the right are floating in the middle trying to distance themselves from the hooples. > [@TreacherousCretin](#): > > I’ll get flamed for this, but I would think \*\*level of education \*\*and/or intelligence is one factor. NY Times: [Poll Finds Tea Party Backers Wealthier and More Educated](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/15/us/politics/15poll.html?hp). So much for my faith in the great insights provided by the Straight Dope forum posters. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-traditional-republicans-and-tea-partiers/535884/46 "2010-04-15T02:40:11Z")
What they remind me of are the anti-WTO protesters in Seattle. Once the Democrats realized they couldn’t harness the crowd into voting, they pretty much ignored them. And I think that’s what’s going to happen with the Tea Partiers. Most of them won’t vote and the Republicans will drop them. Without any organization propping them up, they’ll be a spent force. Sure, they’ll still have the anger but nobody will be buying them bus tickets. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-traditional-republicans-and-tea-partiers/535884/47 "2010-04-15T02:49:39Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > What they remind me of are the anti-WTO protesters in Seattle. Once the Democrats realized they couldn’t harness the crowd into voting, they pretty much ignored them. And I think that’s what’s going to happen with the Tea Partiers. Most of them won’t vote and the Republicans will drop them. Without any organization propping them up, they’ll be a spent force. Sure, they’ll still have the anger but nobody will be buying them bus tickets. I don’t mean to be a contrarian, but what makes you believe the Tea Partiers won’t vote Republican? It seems to me the Republicans are successfully courting and stoking their ire. ---
**Author:** ![Oldeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@Oldeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oldeb)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-traditional-republicans-and-tea-partiers/535884/48 "2010-04-15T02:55:24Z")
> [@ghardester](#): > > Anyone else get the feeling that the Tea Party is a newer version of United We Stand? I hadn’t thought about it like that. I wonder how many of them are the same people? Most of them are certainly old enough, and after Perot fell they would have probably gone back to being Republicans. There’s some big differences though. Palin and Bachmann are no Perot. He’s an overachieving self-made billionaire who graduated from the US Naval Academy. He came off as a crazy little man but he actually had goals and bigger dreams then just having crowds cheer for him. I’m not sure he actually had a good way to realize his goals, but I don’t think he was in it for the popularity. He also held views that wouldn’t be very popular to the Tea Party. He was pro-choice. He wanted healthcare reform and even suggested a public option to provide a basic level of health care for everyone. He was big on education reform and wanted more government involvement in a lot of things. He didn’t approve of the deregulation of Reagan. Supporting both Perot and the Tea Party would take some pretty creative mental juggling. ---
**Author:** ![Oldeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@Oldeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oldeb)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-traditional-republicans-and-tea-partiers/535884/49 "2010-04-15T03:04:13Z")
> [@erez](#): > > NY Times: [Poll Finds Tea Party Backers Wealthier and More Educated](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/15/us/politics/15poll.html?hp). So much for my faith in the great insights provided by the Straight Dope forum posters. :dubious: Well, they do come out of that poll as being racist. And the level of education doesn’t seem to mean that they’ve managed to gain any critical thinking skills along the way judging by the quotes. According to that poll they’re more likely to believe that Obama is running the government to benefit Blacks over other races and that too much is made of the problems Blacks face. Oh yeah, and that he’s a “Very liberal socialist Muslim.” :rolleyes: They also don’t seem to understand that they take contrary positions on a lot of things, at least going by the last quote. > [@NY Times](#): > > “That’s a conundrum, isn’t it?” asked Jodine White, 62, of Rocklin, Calif. “I don’t know what to say. Maybe I don’t want smaller government. I guess I want smaller government and my Social Security.” She added, “I didn’t look at it from the perspective of losing things I need. I think I’ve changed my mind.” ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-traditional-republicans-and-tea-partiers/535884/50 "2010-04-15T03:15:08Z")
> [@Oldeb](#): > > Supporting both Perot and the Tea Party would take some pretty creative mental juggling. “Down with Socialism, and Keep Your Hands Off My Medicare!!” ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-traditional-republicans-and-tea-partiers/535884/51 "2010-04-15T04:11:06Z")
> [@erez](#): > > NY Times: [Poll Finds Tea Party Backers Wealthier and More Educated](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/15/us/politics/15poll.html?hp). So much for my faith in the great insights provided by the Straight Dope forum posters. :dubious: [Not so fast:](http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/04/new-data-on-tea-party-sympathizers.html) [ > [@](#): > > tea party sympathizers believe blacks are less intelligent, hardworking and trustworthy. They appear to be particularly wary of immigrants. And they don’t much care for gays, either. ]([http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/04/new-data-on-tea-party-sympathizers.html](http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/04/new-data-on-tea-party-sympathizers.html)) ---
**Author:** ![erez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@erez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erez)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-traditional-republicans-and-tea-partiers/535884/52 "2010-04-15T04:56:39Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > [Not so fast:](http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/04/new-data-on-tea-party-sympathizers.html) Yes, fast. People that said that the Tea Party members were uneducated were proven wrong. You’re just trying to change the subject. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-traditional-republicans-and-tea-partiers/535884/53 "2010-04-15T05:31:08Z")
> [@erez](#): > > Yes, fast. People that said that the Tea Party members were uneducated were proven wrong. Um, not necessarily. The OP was asking for differences between TP supporters **and traditional Republicans** , and that’s what other posters were responding to. The article you found discussed differences between TP supporters **and the general public**. The wealthy and privileged are disproportionately Republican, just as the poor and underprivileged are disproportionately Democrat. So it’s not necessarily inconsistent that TP supporters might be better educated than the general public on average but less educated than Republicans in general, especially considering these facts from your link: > [@](#): > > The 18 percent of Americans who identify themselves as Tea Party supporters tend to be Republican, white, male, married and older than 45. Whites and middle-aged males are categories that correlate with higher education levels than the public as a whole, but not necessarily higher than Republicans as a whole. However, I think what contributes most to the widespread impression of Tea Partiers as undereducated is not so much their documented education levels but dumb stuff like this (also from your link): > [@](#): > > When talking about the Tea Party movement, the largest number of respondents said that the movement’s goal should be reducing the size of government, more than cutting the budget deficit or lowering taxes. > > And nearly three-quarters of those who favor smaller government said they would prefer it even if it meant spending on domestic programs would be cut. > > But in follow-up interviews, Tea Party supporters said they did not want to cut Medicare or Social Security — the biggest domestic programs, suggesting instead a focus on “waste.” > > Some defended being on Social Security while fighting big government by saying that since they had paid into the system, they deserved the benefits. > > Others could not explain the contradiction. > > “That’s a conundrum, isn’t it?” asked Jodine White, 62, of Rocklin, Calif. “I don’t know what to say. Maybe I don’t want smaller government. I guess I want smaller government and my Social Security.” She added, “I didn’t look at it from the perspective of losing things I need. I think I’ve changed my mind.” ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-traditional-republicans-and-tea-partiers/535884/54 "2010-04-15T06:01:38Z")
By the way, [here’s a good article by Jonathan Raban about ideological disparities at the Tea Party Convention](http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2010/mar/25/at-the-tea-party/?page=2): > [@](#): > > t’s one thing for pro-life evangelicals and secular libertarians to march shoulder to shoulder behind banners saying “Kill the Bill!” and “Oust the Marxist Usurper!” or displaying a portrait of Obama rouged up and kohled to look like Heath Ledger’s Joker in the Batman movie Dark Knight. It’s quite another to coop up the same people for three days in a hotel, where they must talk to each other through breakfast, lunch, and dinner. At the march on D.C., there were T-shirts proclaiming “I am John Galt” and “Atlas Has Shrugged” alongside others that said “Obama Spends—Jesus Saves” or had the legend “Yes, He Did” beneath a picture of Christ on the cross. At Opryland, devout, abstemious Christians were breaking bread with followers of Ayn Rand’s gospel of unbridled and atheistic self-interest. The convention, designed to unite the Tea Party movement, was helping to expose fundamental differences of belief and mindset between people who, before Nashville, had appeared as interchangeable members of a single angry crowd. ---
**Author:** ![erez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@erez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erez)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-traditional-republicans-and-tea-partiers/535884/55 "2010-04-15T07:01:22Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Um, not necessarily. The OP was asking for differences between TP supporters **and traditional Republicans** , and that’s what other posters were responding to. The article you found discussed differences between TP supporters **and the general public**. > > The wealthy and privileged are disproportionately Republican, just as the poor and underprivileged are disproportionately Democrat. So it’s not necessarily inconsistent that TP supporters might be better educated than the general public on average but less educated than Republicans in general, especially considering these facts from your link: No. These posters were likely even more wrong if they were comparing the Tea Party supporters to the Republicans. The 2008 elections CNN exit polling data (latest breakdown that I can find that strongly relates to party affiliation) shows that Obama had more support among college graduates than McCain and a lot (18%) more support among postgraduate degree holders. > [@](#): > > The 18 percent of Americans who identify themselves as Tea Party supporters tend to be Republican, white, male, married and older than 45. > [@Kimstu](#): > > Whites and middle-aged males are categories that correlate with higher education levels than the public as a whole, but not necessarily higher than Republicans as a whole. Why do you think “older than 45” equals middle-aged? It doesn’t. And you are wrong that higher age correlates with higher education levels. It’s exactly the opposite, see [http://www.census.gov/population/www/socdemo/education/cps2008.html](http://www.census.gov/population/www/socdemo/education/cps2008.html). There is very little correlation between sex and education as well (larger percentage of females hold bachelor’s and master’s degrees but fewer hold doctoral degrees). > [@Kimstu](#): > > However, I think what contributes most to the widespread impression of Tea Partiers as undereducated is not so much their documented education levels but dumb stuff like this (also from your link): This board is supposed to be dedicated to fighting ignorance. People’s widespread impressions (formed by carefully chosen examples) are what we are supposed to correct here if they are not supported by facts. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-traditional-republicans-and-tea-partiers/535884/56 "2010-04-15T07:22:34Z")
> [@erez](#): > > These posters were likely even more wrong if they were comparing the Tea Party supporters to the Republicans. The 2008 elections CNN exit polling data (latest breakdown that I can find that strongly relates to party affiliation) shows that Obama had more support among college graduates than McCain and a lot (18%) more support among postgraduate degree holders. Exit polls of voters in a particular election aren’t the same thing as comparisons between party members in general. As [these statistics](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_(United_States)#Voter_base) indicate, > [@](#): > > Self-identified Republicans are significantly more likely than Democrats to have 4-year college degrees. […] Regarding graduate-level degrees (masters or doctorate), there is a rough parity between Democrats and Republicans. According to the Gallup Organization: “\*\*oth Democrats and Republicans have equal numbers of Americans at the upper end of the educational spectrum — that is, with post graduate degrees…” And in any case, a more careful look at [the data](http://www.gallup.com/poll/127181/Tea-Partiers-Fairly-Mainstream-Demographics.aspx?utm_source=alert&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=syndication&utm_content=morelink&utm_term=Politics#1) indicates that Tea Party supporters aren’t even better educated than the general public to any significant extent: > [@](#): > > Education level TP supporters All US adults > > No college 34% 35% > Some college 34% 32% > College graduate 16% 17% > Postgraduate 15% 16% All those differences fall within the poll’s +/- 4 percentage points margin of error, so statistically there’s no real difference. > [@erez](#): > > People’s widespread impressions (formed by carefully chosen examples) are what we are supposed to correct here if they are not supported by facts. Sure, but you need to show that the facts actually support your attempts at correction. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-traditional-republicans-and-tea-partiers/535884/57 "2010-04-15T09:45:47Z")
> [@](#): > > What is the difference between traditional Republicans and Tea Partiers? [del]Republicans _wash._[/del] No. Republicans are organized, & have a coherant agenda. Tea Partiers are angry, noisy & confused. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-traditional-republicans-and-tea-partiers/535884/58 "2010-04-15T10:21:19Z")
> [@erez](#): > > NY Times: Poll Finds Tea Party Backers Wealthier and More Educated. So much for my faith in the great insights provided by the Straight Dope forum posters. :dubious: But another poll shows a dead heat. Anyway, don’t the politically active of any stripe tend to more educated? (Not to mention that this is one question often answered dishonestly.) But I wouldn’t recommend citing the NY Times data if your goal is to refute Teabagger ignorance. One teabagger said “[Obama]’s a socialist. And to tell you the truth, I think he’s a Muslim and trying to head us in that direction, I don’t care what he says.” Also, 66% of Teabaggers said either Global warming has no serious impact (even in the future) or doesn’t exist at all. As few as 12% of the general population gave this response in 2007. (Oh, I forgot: Rejecting left-wing Islamo-academic global warming nonsense demonstrates critical independent thinking and a supple mind. 😃 ) ---
**Author:** ![Lestrade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Lestrade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lestrade)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-traditional-republicans-and-tea-partiers/535884/59 "2010-04-15T13:23:07Z")
Isn’t the difference that Republicans don’t watch Glenn Beck, Bill O’Reilly, et al. religiously? Fox didn’t invent the Tea Party, but they do seem to run it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-traditional-republicans-and-tea-partiers/535884/60 "2010-04-15T13:46:04Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > [del]Republicans _wash._[/del] > No. Republicans are organized, & have a coherant agenda. That’s pretty generous. It seems to be a major problem of that party that they don’t have much of an agenda, other than to oppose the Democrats. Some of that, of course, has to do with their limited numbers in Congress. > [@](#): > > Tea Partiers are angry, noisy & confused. I think “fractious” is more accurate. The Tea Party movement seems to be made up of various groups-- some that are angry, noisy and confused, but some that are more focused, although not necessarily on the same things. Many seem virulently anti-Obama, but some are just anti-Washington. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-traditional-republicans-and-tea-partiers/535884.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-traditional-republicans-and-tea-partiers/535884.md?page=4)