# What is the difference between traditional Republicans and Tea Partiers? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 12, 2010, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-traditional-republicans-and-tea-partiers/535884 "2010-04-12T21:18:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-traditional-republicans-and-tea-partiers/535884/101 "2010-04-17T18:47:18Z")
They are far more representative of the country than is the left-wing base that supports Obama. They are far more representative of the country than are the lefties on the SDMB. Obama has lost the independents already. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-traditional-republicans-and-tea-partiers/535884/102 "2010-04-17T18:48:24Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Examples? Examples of the facts: Go to the link in AHunter’s post and read the signs. Examples of intelligent people forming a conclusion based on the facts: Everyone in this thread who says those people are idiots. Examples of an unintelligent people denying the facts: Everyone here who claims there’s no evidence that Tea Baggers are ever stupid or racist. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-traditional-republicans-and-tea-partiers/535884/103 "2010-04-17T18:55:30Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Just look at the effort the left is going to here. > > [Here’s a reporter asking a black man at a tea party rally if he ever feels uncomfortable.](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2010/04/16/nbc_reporter_to_black_man_at_tea_party_have_you_ever_felt_uncomfortable.html) Note the implicit accusation of racism of the tea parties in the question. It’s hard to imagine a reporter asking a black person such a question at a MoveOn rally. While I tend to agree with that last sentence, I don’t consider NBC to be part of “the left” > [@](#): > > Then there was the Congressional Black Caucus marching through a tea party protest, video and audio cameras in tow, hoping to catch someone attacking them, or yelling racist epithets at them that could be caught on camera so the health care bill could be turned into a modern civil rights struggle. They got bupkis, so they just claimed it happened anyway. > > Later, Nancy Pelosi wandered through the same crowd with a giant gavel in her hand, a complete ‘up yours’ gesture to American citizens from a government leader. And still, no violence. But notice that neither the CBC or Pelosi felt the need to actually have any security. Notice that the Capital police didn’t try to stop her or escort her. It seems that the ‘fears of violence’ these people claim to have don’t actually translate into any kind of real-world worry. I know you’ve put this hypothesis out there before, but I think you’re reading too much into this. And the violence that these guys might be fearing is unlikely to happen on the steps of the Capitol Building. > [@](#): > > The left has been in a full-court press to find examples of violence and racism in the tea party. They’ve come up woefully short. So now they’ve got idiots like [Crash The Tea Party](http://www.helium.com/items/1799908-how-crash-the-tea-party-plans-to-demolish-the-tea-party-movement) trying to _manufacture_ evidence. A bit disturbing, but not anything different for what the right does. > [@](#): > > You are never, ever going to get the left to admit that the Tea Party represents average people who share one thing in common - their desire for smaller government. You’ll never get them to admit that they have valid concerns and that they should be seriously listened to. Might be true in general, and here specifically, but Obama has said that. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-traditional-republicans-and-tea-partiers/535884/104 "2010-04-17T18:57:51Z")
> [@](#): > > They are far more representative of the country than is the left-wing base that supports Obama. They are far more representative of the country than are the lefties on the SDMB. Okay, Sam, let’s try that out. Are you saying [this person](http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/bl-tea-party-signs.htm?PS=720%3A19) is representative of the views of people like you? And [this person](http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/bl-tea-party-signs.htm?PS=720%3A30)? And [this one](http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/bl-tea-party-signs.htm?PS=720%3A49)? You’re saying you and most conservatives agree with them? Or are you about to start back-pedaling and claim that they’re just a radical fringe that has nothing to do with you or conservatism? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-traditional-republicans-and-tea-partiers/535884/105 "2010-04-17T19:32:40Z")
**Sam** , do you realize your posts have become parodies of their already parodic selves ever since the side you root for lost the health care battle, both legislatively and intellectually? > [@](#): > > Then there was the Congressional Black Caucus marching through a tea party protest, video and audio cameras in tow, hoping to catch someone attacking them, or yelling racist epithets at them that could be caught on camera so the health care bill could be turned into a modern civil rights struggle. They got bupkis, so they just claimed it happened anyway. What makes you think (A) the black congressmen were trying to do that, or (B) that they were lying? People who had been nearly killed in the civil rights protests? Who said that, another of your blogs? Go tell [the Capitol Police](http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/03/20/90772/rep-john-lewis-charges-protesters.html) they were lying. Dear sweet Lord, man! And how many others of “you people” see a powerful woman’s holding a gavel as a _phallic symbol_? Anybody both physically and mentally beyond the fifth grade? Did you know it’s the gavel used to enact the Medicare Law in 1965, or did Rush leave that part out? And you’re seriously suggesting that engaging in violence only sporadically is to the teabaggers’ _credit_? How fucking low can you go? > [@](#): > > the Tea Party is a huge threat to their agenda. They need to be marginalized and triviliazed so that their actual complaints don’t have to be addressed. The Teabaggers are a threat only to the GOP, as we’ve also discussed but without any effect on you. As for their “actual complaints”, as you call them, they can only be addressed if they can be _articulated_. Let us know if they come up with anything you feel comfortable repeating in public, okay, Sparky? Or even if they come up with some leaders not on the Fox payroll. For the love of God … :rolleyes: **John** , what exactly is it that you find “a bit disturbing”? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-traditional-republicans-and-tea-partiers/535884/106 "2010-04-17T21:12:13Z")
I personally don’t like that tactic, from either side. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-traditional-republicans-and-tea-partiers/535884/107 "2010-04-17T21:26:22Z")
…nm ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-traditional-republicans-and-tea-partiers/535884/108 "2010-04-17T21:28:08Z")
Ah, the good old “they all do it, I’m glad to be an aloof nonparticipant” false equivalence stuff yet again. Thought so. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-traditional-republicans-and-tea-partiers/535884/109 "2010-04-17T21:34:40Z")
The fact that I don’t like either side doing it is a “false equivalence”? Ok… As for being aloof from infiltrating a political organization in order to trip up some members… Yeah, I’m aloof from that. I’d hope most of the posters here are, too, and I think I’d be right. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-traditional-republicans-and-tea-partiers/535884/110 "2010-04-17T22:46:56Z")
Wait, wait…over 45 isn’t middle aged? What IS? Hell, it’s the direct middle of your life…if you live to be ninety! I almost want to start a thread in IMHO about this. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-traditional-republicans-and-tea-partiers/535884/111 "2010-04-17T23:36:34Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The fact that I don’t like either side doing it is a “false equivalence”? Ok… No, the fact that you imply, without or even despite evidence, that both do it similarly is what makes it false equivalence. > [@](#): > > As for being aloof from infiltrating a political organization in order to trip up some members No, in order to engage in self-satisfying tut-tutting such as the above. Get either point now? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-traditional-republicans-and-tea-partiers/535884/112 "2010-04-17T23:37:37Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > Wait, wait…over 45 isn’t middle aged? Depends on how close to that age YOU are, doesn’t it? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2010, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-traditional-republicans-and-tea-partiers/535884/113 "2010-04-17T23:38:34Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Examples of the facts: Go to the link in AHunter’s post and read the signs. I see. So the fact that a handful of people appear to be stupid or illiterate is evidence of the overall intelligence of a movement that consists of millions of people? > [@](#): > > Examples of intelligent people forming a conclusion based on the facts: Everyone in this thread who says those people are idiots. Oh, come on. You haven’t even made a vague case that these people are representative. > [@](#): > > Examples of an unintelligent people denying the facts: Everyone here who claims there’s no evidence that Tea Baggers are ever stupid or racist. I’d like a cite that the tea party defenders here have claimed that NONE of them are racist or stupid. I’ve repeatedly said that ANY large group, right or left, will have some stupid people in it and some racists. It’s inevitable. The question is whether they are representative of the group or not. > [@Little Nemo](#): > > Okay, Sam, let’s try that out. > > Are you saying this person is representative of the views of people like you? And this person? And this one? You’re saying you and most conservatives agree with them? > > Or are you about to start back-pedaling and claim that they’re just a radical fringe that has nothing to do with you or conservatism? Before I answer that, I’d like you to agree to something: If I can find a picture of someone from a left-wing rally carrying a sign that’s really offensive and/or really stupid, will you agree with me that the left is exactly as stupid as the right? Fair’s fair, and all. If you won’t do that, then you’ve just exposed the fact that you’re essentially trying to play ‘gotcha’ tricks. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2010, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-traditional-republicans-and-tea-partiers/535884/114 "2010-04-18T00:03:22Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Oh, come on. You haven’t even made a vague case that these people are representative. And you’ve done _what_, besides deny it? What xountervailing examples of thoughtfulness, or even simple coherence, from them can you point us to? > [@](#): > > If I can find a picture of someone from a left-wing rally carrying a sign that’s really offensive and/or really stupid … If you won’t do that, then you’ve just exposed the fact that you’re essentially trying to play ‘gotcha’ tricks. That’s a pretty childish game you’re proposing, but if you can find something of the sort to show the class, go right ahead. But you’d be much better off showing us something worth respecting in the TP “movement”, something other than what can be seen in the only evidence presented so far. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2010, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-traditional-republicans-and-tea-partiers/535884/115 "2010-04-18T00:08:19Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > No, the fact that you imply, without or even despite evidence, that both do it similarly is what makes it false equivalence. What are talking about? The only evidence of either side doing this, in this thread, is from the left, not the right. I was thinking along the lines of the ACORN “sting” as someone on the right doing something similar. > [@](#): > > No, in order to engage in self-satisfying tut-tutting such as the above. > > Get either point now? You asked me a question and I answered it. It’s not any more complicated than that. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2010, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-traditional-republicans-and-tea-partiers/535884/116 "2010-04-18T00:17:32Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > What are talking about? The only evidence of either side doing this, in this thread, is from the left, not the right. (A) As if it matters in a case of false equivalence, and (B) Some yahoo with a website is hardly “The Left”, a term that **Sam** finds endlessly useful in composing simplistic denunciations of it, but which you must know just doesn’t cut it in a more intellectual arena than, say, a Palin speech. > [@](#): > > I was thinking along the lines of the ACORN “sting” as someone on the right doing something similar. With the difference that that one \*actually happened. \* ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2010, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-traditional-republicans-and-tea-partiers/535884/117 "2010-04-18T01:01:01Z")
[More demographic analysis](http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/04/tea-party-bears-becks-imprint.html). The “Tea Party” is composed essentially of Glenn Beck’s audience. Better get to work, Rush, you’re losing your leadership of the Republican Party. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2010, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-traditional-republicans-and-tea-partiers/535884/118 "2010-04-18T01:14:55Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > They are far more representative of the country than is the left-wing base that supports Obama. Not even you believe that. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Obama has lost the independents already. Those to his **left,** perhaps, but where else are they going to go? As for the Libertarians and the Pat Buchanan paleocons, he never had them anyway, nor any chance of getting them. And the centrists will get behind Obama in 2012 because he has been **moving to the center** since he took office, more’s the pity. Yet for some reason there is a legend-meme in the RW blogosphere that he has been moving to the **left** since he took office. It never ceases to amaze me how much of the RW narratives are not merely detached from reality, but the reverse of reality. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2010, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-traditional-republicans-and-tea-partiers/535884/119 "2010-04-18T01:30:32Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Probably the only thing they knew about Teddy was the Big Stick thing. Lord knows that seems to be a favorite concept for them. Yeah expect for the “Speak softly…” part of the quote. Don’t think they’re quite on board with that part. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2010, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-traditional-republicans-and-tea-partiers/535884/120 "2010-04-18T01:41:15Z")
> [@](#): > > Before I answer that, I’d like you to agree to something: If I can find a picture of someone from a left-wing rally carrying a sign that’s really offensive and/or really stupid, will you agree with me that the left is exactly as stupid as the right? Fair’s fair, and all. > > If you won’t do that, then you’ve just exposed the fact that you’re essentially trying to play ‘gotcha’ tricks. I’m sure you’d have no problems finding somebody from the looney left holding up a stupid sign. I know I’d have little problem doing so. Just this week, I wrote that the Tea Partiers remind me of the anti-WTO crowd that was demonstrating a few years ago. But where have I claimed that those sign-waving loonies are representative of the left as a whole? I haven’t - because I think they’re an extremist fringe. You, on the other hand, have said that the Tea Party movement is representative of the greater part. So answer the questions. Do you still say those people are speaking for you? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-traditional-republicans-and-tea-partiers/535884.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-difference-between-traditional-republicans-and-tea-partiers/535884.md?page=7)