# What is the Dot Over the 'I' and 'J' For? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 29, 2005, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-dot-over-the-i-and-j-for/301781 "2005-04-29T20:55:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jim\_B](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jim_b/32/4338_2.png) [@Jim\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_B)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2005, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-dot-over-the-i-and-j-for/301781/1 "2005-04-29T20:55:13Z")
It is called a tittle, according to an email I once received. And it is over both the “I” and “J” probably because they once were the same letter, I assume. And that is about all I know. I recall reading once a long time ago that uppercase letters were once all we had. Then some monk or someone in the middle ages developed our lowercase letters, but I’m not sure how or from what. Could someone tell me what exactly is the dot over the lowercase “I” and “J” for? Or at the very least, could someone tell me where it came from? Thank you in advance for your help:) ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2005, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-dot-over-the-i-and-j-for/301781/2 "2005-04-29T21:20:52Z")
[tittle](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tittle) ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2005, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-dot-over-the-i-and-j-for/301781/3 "2005-04-29T21:23:16Z")
So the short answer seems to be that because an i is just one line, it’s easy to mistake it for part of an adjacent letter. E.g., confusing “in” for “m”. Hence, the tittle, to make the i stand out more. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-dot-over-the-i-and-j-for/301781/4 "2005-04-30T00:59:19Z")
Medieval lettering was generally made up of specific downstrokes and upstrokes, something like the slash and backslash. Spaces weren’t used between letters. Thus, the word “minum” would be done as follows: \\\//\\ The “MIN” thus is six downstrokes. It also looks exactly like “NIM.” So to tell the difference, scribes put a dot above the I. \\i\//\\ The dot makes the word clear (It’s easier to see in actual script than on a computer, of course). When “j” was added to the language (it is the newest letter in the alphabet), it was added just after i, and was based on the i, so it kept the dot. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-dot-over-the-i-and-j-for/301781/5 "2005-04-30T01:17:39Z")
Now that we’ve got “tittle” all thrashed out - what’s a “jot”? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![jasonh300](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/46a35a/32.png) [@jasonh300](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasonh300)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-dot-over-the-i-and-j-for/301781/6 "2005-04-30T01:24:50Z")
> [@Northern Piper](#): > > Now that we’ve got “tittle” all thrashed out - what’s a “jot”? :dubious: Wasn’t Jot a short cartoon that came on Saturday mornings back in the 70s with some kind of moral or religious message? (Mormon maybe?) ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-dot-over-the-i-and-j-for/301781/7 "2005-04-30T01:25:43Z")
> [@Northern Piper](#): > > Now that we’ve got “tittle” all thrashed out - what’s a “jot”? :dubious: [Jot](http://www.nostalgiacentral.com/tv/kids/jot.htm) ---
**Author:** ![jasonh300](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/46a35a/32.png) [@jasonh300](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasonh300)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-dot-over-the-i-and-j-for/301781/8 "2005-04-30T01:42:47Z")
> [@Mr. Blue Sky](#): > > [Jot](http://www.nostalgiacentral.com/tv/kids/jot.htm) Hey there, Mr. Blue… Thanks for the link. I’ve never seen that site before…looks like I’ll be sitting here for a while now. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-dot-over-the-i-and-j-for/301781/9 "2005-04-30T02:30:54Z")
> [@jasonh300](#): > > Hey there, Mr. Blue… > > Thanks for the link. I’ve never seen that site before…looks like I’ll be sitting here for a while now. 🙂 I remember watching those shorts as a kid and getting creeped out. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-dot-over-the-i-and-j-for/301781/10 "2005-04-30T12:06:49Z")
> [@Northern Piper](#): > > Now that we’ve got “tittle” all thrashed out - what’s a “jot”? :dubious: I thought it was the cross bar on the letter t, but I can’t find a cite for that. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-dot-over-the-i-and-j-for/301781/11 "2005-04-30T12:53:32Z")
“Jot” and “tittle” refers to Hebrew and Aramaic writing. Jot comes from the letter name _yod_, which is the smallest letter. It’s only a small mark compared to the other letters. “Tittle” in Hebrew and Aramaic writing, IIRC, is the tiny serif sticking up from the top of the letter. You know how Hebrew square writing has a horizontal top line? The tittle would be that little serif that begins or ends the pen stroke and points up from the top line. There’s also a tittle at the lower right corner of the letter _bet_, which is the only way to tell it apart from the letter _kaf_. Is anyone tittering? ---
**Author:** ![Eurograff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/df705f/32.png) [@Eurograff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eurograff)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-dot-over-the-i-and-j-for/301781/12 "2005-04-30T13:07:13Z")
> [@Northern Piper](#): > > Now that we’ve got “tittle” all thrashed out - what’s a “jot”? :dubious: Jot comes from Greek iota. Note that when “jot” is used to denote character “j”, it’s pronounced as how you would say “yot” in English. This is because in Latin, from which the difference originates, and in most languages in Europe, letters i and j sound very similar, as ii and jii, and jot sort of underlines the fact that they are, indeed, two different letters. I understand that French language at some point changed the letter j to sound like dz and this, like other pronunciation weirdnesses, then migrated to English. Thus German words “Ja” and “Jahre” have English equivalents “Yes” and “Year”, as y has to be used in the place of j. See [German alphabet](http://www.omniglot.com/writing/german.htm) for more. Other languages influenced by German at some point, like [Estonian](http://www.magma.ca/~raksim/estonian/alphabet.html), can also use the jot. ---
**Author:** ![Eurograff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/df705f/32.png) [@Eurograff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eurograff)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-dot-over-the-i-and-j-for/301781/13 "2005-04-30T13:12:25Z")
> [@](#): > > Jot comes from Greek iota. Which of course has it’s origins in Middle East, and at least partly in Semitic yod, as **Johanna** stated. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-dot-over-the-i-and-j-for/301781/14 "2005-04-30T16:55:04Z")
It’s my initial in Hebrew, I better know it! My name spelled in Hebrew is yod-vav-het-nun-heh. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-dot-over-the-i-and-j-for/301781/15 "2005-04-30T17:35:37Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Medieval lettering was generally made up of specific downstrokes and upstrokes, something like the slash and backslash. Spaces weren’t used between letters. Thus, the word “minum” would be done as follows: > > \\\//\. So leetspeak is really a throwback to the Dark Ages? ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-dot-over-the-i-and-j-for/301781/16 "2005-04-30T21:22:08Z")
If you could consider the Carolingian mini-renaissance the “Dark Ages.” It was a little burst of literacy in the 9th century, when the book hands were developed. The credit traditionally goes to an English monk named Alcuin who was hired by Charlemagne as something like the Minister of Literacy. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-dot-over-the-i-and-j-for/301781/17 "2005-04-30T21:26:36Z")
By “book hands” I mean the type of script they used that was supposed to be both easily writable and legible. Such scripts included the rounded uncials that developed into our modern lower-case letters. It seems the Roman alphabet was all uppercase until Alcuin’s time. If I’m not mistaken, I think the comparable Greek lowercase script was being developed in Byzantium around that time, or was it earlier? I wonder if knowledge of Byzantine script might have inspired Alcuin.